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What would extra options would you buy for your H or M?

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Curious enginee

12-11-2001 10:52:09




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I was wondering, how many of you wish you had live hydraulics, powersteering, 9 speed conversion, an new 12 conversion kit with new bracketry for the alternator? For your Farmall H or M? Any other features or options that M&W or Heisler made?

Yes, these options are possible for a lot of money, and whether or not you can find them. Probably more than the tractor is worth in some cases. What I am suggesting is a group buy of sorts from the manufacturer of the live hydraulic pump, powersteering, and 9 speed conversion. Obviously, lots of these parts are obsolete, but I have access to fabrication shops and vendors that are more than willing to help out. I'm still working on the details for options, but I need to know how many of you would be interested, and what fair price you'd be willing to pay. The cheaper the better right?

I look forward to your opinions.

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keith c johnson

01-15-2006 14:00:47




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for you in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
I would be willing to buy live hydraulics and power steering. Is there anything available?

Thanks, Keith



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Curious engineer

12-12-2001 08:08:38




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
Thanks for all the input! I'm still looking for information on the M&W hand clutch.

So here's my list:

1. 9 speed conversion

2. Live hydraulics

3. Powersteering

4. Friction throttle

5. Brake safety lock operation linkage

6. Hand clutch

7. Alternator bracketry for 12v conversion.

Anything else?

These items seem to be a good starting place. At the very least, I'd like to put something together maybe a "how to" article that could be posted on this site. Complete with photo's and plans. I'll probably start with #5 and #7, and #2. I try to get some numbers together for a group buy for hydraulic pumps/powersteering.

I really like the old letter series farmalls, I hope something like this will help them stay out of the junk yards, and be more usefull on the farm/acreage.

If any of you know what happened to the company M&W, and who bought them out, I'd like to hear from you.

Thanks again.

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Zonie

12-12-2001 20:22:58




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 Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-12-2001 08:08:38  
I have a small lever on my H that I have a string tied to that will lift the parking brake lever. I can send pictures if you'd like, I have no idea who made it but it does appear to be factory made. It works great too. I think it probably had a small chain on it at one time



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W.W.

12-12-2001 05:44:00




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  

I would like the brake lock or even plans of how to make it.



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Zonie

12-11-2001 17:36:16




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
I'd be intrested in everything you mentioned except the 12 V conversion. I already converted my H, It really was pretty simple. I have a M&W friction throtle on my H, it sounds just as you discribed your throtle, it has M&W cast into the handle. the friction disk could use replacement, if I knew what was used as a material I could make one.



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Stan(VA).

12-11-2001 16:51:53




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
Don't know about feasability, but would love to see a differential lock on my SM. How about something to reduce pressure needed to operate the clutch on the M (putting around you don't notice it, but working the tractor all day will leave you a sore knee). Also a lever or small chain to activate the brake lock without doubling over.

I also have a M&W hand throttle in need of the friction disc. My M&W hand clutch got new fibre discs that we had to make up, but I understand they are available now from Bates? Probably could use some of the metal plates that are rust pitted. Char-Lynn still makes all the PS stuff you need. I've installed one used one and have another getting ready for my SH. Steel Wheel offers a new one less the pump for somewhere around 500. A live hyd pump with a universal M/SM bolt pattern (or H/SH) would be nice. I think M&W used to have that too.
Stan(VA).

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john d - clutch improvement

12-12-2001 06:39:46




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 Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Stan(VA)., 12-11-2001 16:51:53  
Dad got the M when I was about 8 years old. I could handle the clutch on our H, but the M was simply too stiff for me to engage it smoothly. A few weeks after he got it, he came home with a little attachment purchased at the local IH dealer. It extended the clutch arm coming out of the left side of the tractor, nearly doubling its length. Simple little thing, mounts with one pin and the clutch rod adjustment is then lengthened slightly to make things work properly again. When I was in high school, we bought a SuperM at a sale. Within about 2 days, Dad had purchased the same attachment for it, as his left knee had seen better days by then!

As mentioned in a previous post, there was a rod available (about 3/16" diameter) that mounted on the light bracket and when it was pulled, it actuated a small lever that pushed down on the front of the brake lock. My M and SM have those also, and I think they came from the IH dealer. My 43H has a heel-operated brake lock that replaced the original toggle. When the brake pedal is pushed, the lock can be applied with your heel. It's the only one like it I've ever seen. It wouldn't be practical on an M, as the pedals curve up over the platform and would make it very difficult to use.

If someone could find some mid-1950's vintage M&W, Tractor Supply, and similar catalogs, they would have a goldmine of information on these and other attachments.

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Stan(VA).

12-12-2001 15:42:55




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 Re: Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to john d - clutch improvement, 12-12-2001 06:39:46  
Thanks for the post John,
Is it possible to get a picture of one of these arms? Are you talking about what is called the "clutch release shaft with lever" in the parts book? If so, did it replace the lever on that shaft, or just clip to it and extend it farther down?
Stan(VA).

PS - C.E. M&W is still in business in IL, making farm equipment, just not handling everything they once did. I understand they sold off some lines over the years (ie: piston/sleeve and stroker crank kits). They will still send out a copy of the operators manual for the hand clutch with a parts breakdown.

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john d

12-12-2001 18:22:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Stan(VA)., 12-12-2001 15:42:55  
Maybe I can get out to the shed and shoot a picture of it in the next couple of days.

The basic design is simply an extension of the arm the clutch pedal rod attaches to. It's a about 3" long, and pins to the end of the arm. The front side of the attachment extends up the forward surface of the clutch control arm so it can't pivot forward on it. There's a hole in the end of it that accepts the rod from the clutch pedal. Simply extending the adjustment on that rod a little bit puts everything back in adjustment.

If you're in a hurry to make something that would work, I think a piece of 1" (maybe 3/4") electrical conduit about 3" long could be used. Simply smash one end flat to accept the rod from the clutch pedal, and drill a hole in it. The other end could extend up over the clutch arm and have a hole drilled parallel to the other end that would pin to the clutch control arm.

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Stan(VA).

12-12-2001 19:09:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to john d, 12-12-2001 18:22:22  
John,
Thanks for getting back so quick! Would love to see a picture when you get the chance.

If the whole piece is about 3", how much of that is the final extension? Is half of it the brace (ie: 1 1/2" of extension) or 2" extension and 1" brace...
Stan(VA).



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Brake Lock lever

12-11-2001 19:39:31




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 Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Stan(VA)., 12-11-2001 16:51:53  
Stan: There use to be a flexable wire attached to front of light bar that had a round loop you just pulled up and that moved the brake latch. No bending over. Simple when ya see it. Maybe it was a dealer item back then in my area. ralph



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Jimbub

12-11-2001 16:25:34




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
I have not seen a aftermarket lightbar tool box on the market for the H. I know somebody made them in there day, but doubt you could find an original in very good shape with out giving up an arm and a leg.



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JDJIM

12-11-2001 15:19:51




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
I have a '49 M , Dad bought it new , now has live 2 way hyd , M&W 9 speed , power steering , M&W governor , Schwartz wide front , and 12 volt system , pretty handy extra chore tractor . I would like to know if there is a good 3pt hitch made for them , I have seen some but they look a little????. Thanks JIM



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satisfied customer

12-11-2001 16:04:43




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 Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to JDJIM, 12-11-2001 15:19:51  
I have a saginaw hitch on a SM that has given 25 years of trouble free servive. It has up and down action only no draft control of course but it will lift front of tractor off ground at idle.



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JDM

12-11-2001 14:08:31




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
Not trying to bust a bubble as I would love to have all of those for my M,but wouldnt there be some kind of legal trouble with doing that?What I mean is if you copy somebody elses work isnt that illegal?



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Curious engineer

12-12-2001 07:33:32




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 Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to JDM, 12-11-2001 14:08:31  
If the design was copied, yes. There probably is some copyrights out there on that would have to be bought or leased. But if it's your own design, I don't think you would have a problem. You brought up a good point though, I'll check into that.



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Tim Winkelman

12-11-2001 13:57:56




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
I found all the 'upgrades' at local tractor salvage yards. The power steering, live hyd's, and all brackets for 12 volt conversion from some of the later tractors will fit the M and Super M. The 450, Super W-9, 600 and 650 hyd will bolt right on if you have the time to do it. That also allows you live hyd's for cylinders and loaders and still keeps the belly pump for other things.



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PatM

12-11-2001 12:14:49




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
I'd look for power steering, live hydraulics (with control valves, etc.) that are powered before the clutch, live PTO (like the M&W clutch hand clutch).

The only use I'd have for 12V is to get more light so I have more available tractor hours, those 6V just don't do much for my old eyes. My M has a magneto, so all I need is battery hill.



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Bob M

12-11-2001 12:02:57




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
How about a reproduction M&W friction throttle lever? I've got one on my Super M - it works great. I purchased a Taiwanese copycat friction lever for my Super H, but it's nothing compared to the M&W. Doesn't work nearly as well (lever's too short and the compression spring is too small). And it just doesn't look nearly as nice as the M&W lever.



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Curious engineer

12-11-2001 13:22:49




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 Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Bob M, 12-11-2001 12:02:57  
Do you have any photos of that setup. I think I might have one on my '39 H. It's a friction type, with the spring on top. Cast lever arm with two holes for the throttle linkage rod.



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Bob M - link to photos

12-11-2001 16:04:00




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 Re: Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 13:22:49  
Here ya go Curious! Punch below for several shots from various angles of the M&W gas lever (along with some starter armature photos.....disregard those). Don't have any pix (yet) of the imitation lever on my SH - will put some up soon as I do.



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Curious engineer

12-12-2001 07:29:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Bob M - link to photos, 12-11-2001 16:04:00  
Yep! that's the one I got on my H. Thanks for the photos!



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ted

12-11-2001 11:47:20




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
I would put monies in for power steering, live hydraulics, live PTO and 12 V. Any idea on what the costs would be for some quantity?



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Curious engineer

12-11-2001 13:29:06




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 Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to ted, 12-11-2001 11:47:20  
No numbers to give you yet. I'm still gathering information. I have located some suppliers for a hydraulic pump and powersteering. A live pto isn't really possible with the transmisson on the H's and M's. I think M&W made a hand clutch that made could stop the tractor and leave the pto running, but you could not shift gears.



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just a thought

12-11-2001 14:13:51




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 Re: Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 13:29:06  
Some kind of oil drive set up should be possible. I suppose cost would be prohibitive.



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Steven@nd

12-11-2001 11:03:45




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
Definitaly the live hydralics for the H and M. Power steering is a great thing also. I guess the M&W 9 speed really helped them out too. Another good idea for the older H's and M's is the 7mph 4th gear, this is good for mowing and raking with modern equipment!

As said, the alternator conversion is easy enough with common parts from a junk yard, namely a GM one wire alternator and a couple of fabbed brackets.

Steven

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right said fred

12-11-2001 19:15:25




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 Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Steven@nd, 12-11-2001 11:03:45  
I would vote for the faster transmission. I have looked a little for the "fast fourth" for an M and couldn't find one. Does anyone know if M&W's 9 speed is still available?



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The Red

12-11-2001 10:56:11




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 Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 10:52:09  
Case-IH already has the alternator package available for the M which includes everything needed.



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Curious engineer

12-11-2001 11:04:21




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 Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to The Red, 12-11-2001 10:56:11  
I didn't realize that. Does it includes new brackets for the alternator mount/top link?



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The Red

12-11-2001 11:35:15




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 Re: Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Curious engineer, 12-11-2001 11:04:21  
According to Ken Updike, new brackets are included. Now I don't know of anyone who has put together a bracket package for the H using a Delco 10si alternator.



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Farmall Paul

12-11-2001 14:20:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to The Red, 12-11-2001 11:35:15  
I'd love to see a complete 1-wire alternator, bracket, wiring harness & switches kit for the 'H' to help out all the folks who want to do this! Kit would need really, REALLY detailed instructions. (Use Bob M.'s!)



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Dick Davis

12-12-2001 07:35:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Farmall Paul, 12-11-2001 14:20:13  
Live hydraulics (with two way valves), 9 speed tranny, hand clutch and I would be very happy. Dick



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The Red

12-12-2001 08:14:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to Dick Davis, 12-12-2001 07:35:16  
A J85-GE5 engine with afterburner would be nice! :)



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Farmall_Man

12-12-2001 18:56:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What would extra options would you buy for your H or M? in reply to The Red, 12-12-2001 08:14:00  
I suppose some wings would be nice with that too, huh?!



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