Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Discussion Forum
:

Thermosyphon cooling system

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
C.L.

11-19-2001 15:34:28




Report to Moderator

A few questions on thermosyphon cooling systems. Were there any other differences between these and normal systems besides the water pump and the radiator cap? How about the radiator? How hot did these things run?




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Bill Smith

11-21-2001 22:36:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to C.L., 11-19-2001 15:34:28  
As a general rule of thumb, a thermosyphoned cooling system had a relatively larger radiator with larger ports through the engine as well as hoses and what not. They were also waterpumpless and no thermostat. Heat guages and shutters were common on kero and distillate burners. The system was also nonpressurized. The maximum temperature wasn't really different than newer systems but they were more subject to temperature varience. Took longer to warm them up and cool them off. When they went to the newer system they reduced size of radiator, added a pressurized cap and thermostat, and the ports and hoses and what not got smaller, and a temp guage became common. The newer system was designed to run a more stable or constant temperature. It takes less time to heat them up and then the cooling part became self controlled temperature wise. This info is general information and I'm not reffering to any specific make or model of tractor. Variations may be found on specific tractors.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob Kerr

11-21-2001 20:29:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to C.L., 11-19-2001 15:34:28  
My 10-20 and F-12 both have thermosyphon and I have never overheated either tractor. When working they will run a higher temp in the head but this in normal for any engine. The F-30 ,water pump equipped I think, has a very similar head to a 10-20 but has a water pump. the diference as far as cooling goes is the 10-20 thermosyphon cooled head has much larger water ports where the head meets the block. Since the water just flows by convection, they made sure to give it some room to "run". With a water pump they made the holes smaller to help keep the water from going through the head too quick and not picking up heat. Also it is a good idea to let a therosyphon cooled engine idle for a while after working it hard to keep the fan running to help cool it off. The nebraska Tests have the coolant temps listed when under load and most are below 210 deg even when at full throttle with full load.If you don't have a temp gauge just stick a candy thermomer in the water at the closest place you can get to where the water comes out of the engine. Be sure to use distilled water and antifreeze mix to keep scale from clogging tubes. Even if you have an old half clogged radiator, regular coolant changes with distilled water and antifreeze will help clean up the system without using acids (radiator cleaners).One last thing, both of my tractors when running normally are cold at the elbow where the water returns to the block. If I am working it hard it might get luke warm. They don't have shutters but had the curtains which I don't have on them right now.I just use an old oily shop rag to cover the lower part of the radiator if I am burning kerosene to keep the water temp up.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RayP(MI)

11-20-2001 19:08:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to C.L., 11-19-2001 15:34:28  
I know I may collect some flack for this, on this board, but we had one of those Green ones, a '47 B, and my dad was experiencing some wild temperature variations when plowing into the wind, vs plowing with the wind. They offered an aftermarket water pump for that tractor, and it did a wonderful job of keeping temperature stable. That tractor had shutters on the radiator, so the operator became a manual thermostat. If you've got the water pump, and it is a good installation, LEAVE IT ON. If you can put a thermostat on, do.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
gene b

11-20-2001 04:11:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to C.L., 11-19-2001 15:34:28  
mine on a good warm day moying yard will run 175-180 make sure the overf;ow tube stays clean for the expanded water when it gets warm can go out the overflow tube



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bigdog

11-19-2001 23:50:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to C.L., 11-19-2001 15:34:28  
Somebody on one of the cub boards did some research on temperatures, but I don't recall what the results were. One thing that bothers most guys unless they understand it's a pressureless system is that if you overfill the radiator, it will boil out the excess until it reaches normal capacity so it's not unusual to see some vapor out the radiator cap until the coolant reaches max expansion. Once the normal level is obtained, it pretty much stays there.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Vern

11-19-2001 22:18:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to C.L., 11-19-2001 15:34:28  
I grew up on A's in so. cntrl. Wash. state. I can't think of any time that they boiled even on hot days in the summer. I think they would run between 180 & 200 deg. if they are working fairly hard. The rad. cap is non pressureized. As long as the cooling system is clean they work pretty well.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Haas

11-20-2001 05:19:23




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to Vern, 11-19-2001 22:18:20  
The thermosyphon works just as well with a pressurized radiator. The Farmall C has thermosyphon and the radiator has a pressure cap. At least mine does.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

11-25-2001 17:14:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to Haas, 11-20-2001 05:19:23  
My super A has a thermosyphon system and has a preasure cap on it. It has been working well for years.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
George

11-20-2001 04:37:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to Vern, 11-19-2001 22:18:20  
A lot of the GREEN 2 cyl. tractors used this system sucessfully. The heat of the water/coolant rising, pulled cool water in at the bottom and incendently on 2 cyl's, this was the head, the hottest part. it was cooled first. it took the auto industry till the early 90's to come up with that trick "reverse cooling" putting the cooler coolant in the head first so as to run higher compression and not to have a "knock" from higher compression.A lot of older engines used thermo syphon with sucess, but as horse power increased they went to water pumps, also higher altitudes were a problem as coolant would boil at a lower temp. I think "FORD" came up with the first "pressure" system, could be wrong tho' Geo.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Al

11-20-2001 08:25:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to George, 11-20-2001 04:37:42  
I just had my Super A engine overhauled. It had run since 1948 with the thermosyphon system with no problems. Only thing you ever notice is when it's shut off hot you'll hear it gurgle for a while, I suspect just from the water continuing to circulate. Anyway this made my mechanic nervous and he went through the radiator, (did find a plugged flue which he replaced) and finally he stuck a water pump from a 100 in it. I've seen/heard of this being done before, but I don't like it--it's not original and the pump itself will interfere with the radiator shutter controls once I get that back together. (Mine was originally distillate.) To make a long story short, we've gardened and done odd jobs with the tractor all summer, and I'm probably going to end up changing it back. Also with the pump on I can't hook up the temp gauge so I have NO idea how hot it's running now. What do you all think?

Al

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
gene b

11-20-2001 20:11:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to Al, 11-20-2001 08:25:53  
there should be a plug in the water pump for the sender most of them do



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Haas

11-20-2001 16:52:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to Al, 11-20-2001 08:25:53  
Your Super A will last longer than you will with the thermosyphon engine cooling system. Look at how many of them are still going after more than 50 years. And your are right, it will gurgle after you shut it off and that is unsettling to a lot of folks, but does no harm.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Glenn(WV)

11-20-2001 09:12:04




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to Al, 11-20-2001 08:25:53  
Al, did your mechanic put a thermostat in your SA when he added the waterpump? If not, it will never get up to full operating temperature(which is not good for the engine). If you plan on changing it back, then of course you don't need a thermostat; otherwise, you need to add one - especially if you plan on using your SA this winter.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Al

11-20-2001 14:19:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thermosyphon cooling system in reply to Glenn(WV), 11-20-2001 09:12:04  
Glenn,

That's where it gets tricky. There's no thermostat and I was told it doesn't need one. I know what you're thinking and I tend to agree, but I've been told by several long-time IH tech's that this is true. Our winters aren't as severe in NC as in some places.

Nevertheless, I don't like the waterpump. I really don't think the engine will get warm enough. I want to disk and plow once in a while, but mostly it's going to cultivate the garden, run the grain auger, and do odd jobs and parades. I think if there was a problem the engine would have burned up before he added it in the first place, even being "tight" since it was new. I suspect it'll come off before spring, my mechanic saved the old water inlet elbow so I'm in business there.

Al

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy