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A Bob M or anyone else charging ?

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Paul Shuler

11-14-2001 11:14:21




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My c has a one year old 12 volt alt. on it. I wired it just like Bob M's diagram and it has worked just great. I do have to rev the rpm's to about 3/4 to get it to kick in and start charging though. Well today it wouldn't charge at all. I ran it a wide open and it would not kick in. I drove it for a while and it did start charging all the way over after it ran a while. When I shut it off, the next time it never would start charging even at full open. Any ideas? The pully on the alt is 2 3/4 inchs across from edge to edge. Didn't know if a bigger or smaller pully would turn it faster. I am in an after dark Christmas parade on Sat. If I charge the batt. will it run the lights about an hour or a little more if it wont charge? Any help welcomed.
Thanks,
Paul

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Wayne-MN

11-15-2001 12:53:19




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 Re: A Bob M or anyone else charging ? in reply to Paul Shuler, 11-14-2001 11:14:21  
Run a smaller pulley on the alt. I run 2" on some of my stuff, various pulleys are available at most hardware stores. Most of our tractors have a smaller crank pulley as compared to a lot of the cars these alternators came off of, not too mention a lot less engine RPM. The alt works on the principle of magnetic inductance. Meaning that if you move a wire through a magnetic field you will produce voltage. The rotor is the magnetic field and the movement, the stator is the wire. An alternator needs some decent RPM to work properly. The bottom line is a smaller pulley will make it excite (start working) at a lower engine RPM and have better output at low engine speeds.

Wayne

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Haas

11-14-2001 19:08:01




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 Re: A Bob M or anyone else charging ? in reply to Paul Shuler, 11-14-2001 11:14:21  
Get the smallest pulley you can on your alternator. I have a C and I've tried two different alternators and the smallest pulley I can get(A favorite saying of a Mechanical Engineer I used to work with was "the little wheel always turns faster"). I still have to reach in and pull back the governor rod that goes to the carb to race the engine to get it to start charging. Normal full throttle won't do it. I have to do that every time I start it. Occasionally it will start on it's own, but that is rare. I also have a Hebard A-21 Shop Mule (Farmall A engine) and it is the same story on it.

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Wade

11-14-2001 18:34:57




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 Re: A Bob M or anyone else charging ? in reply to Paul Shuler, 11-14-2001 11:14:21  
Had the exact problem on my 460 gas last year. Always had to rev it up to get the generator to start working and then it would do fine for the balance of that running. One day last year the generator would not charge at any speed. Took the generator to the shop and had it rebuilt. Can't remember what the problem was. The voltage regulator tested fine.



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steve

11-14-2001 15:32:51




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 Re: A Bob M or anyone else charging ? in reply to Paul Shuler, 11-14-2001 11:14:21  
the good thing about the delco alternator is that it was designed to charge well at idle and therefore should not need a different pulley. the regulator is internal and hasa no external contacts. Bob is right , it could be loose something in the regulator. Another option is the sensing voltage. you have two spade terminals on the side of the alternator. The "F or "2" terminal has 12 volts and can be connected to your 1/4 inch hot lug onthe back case. the "A" or "1" terminal is what signals the alternator to charge. it also is powered by the key switch and is not hot when the engine or key is off. I like to put a 10 ohm 10 watt resistor in this line to drop the voltage slightly and this tells the alternator to charge at an idle. On some cars they have an idoit light, or resistor wire do the same thing. You can get the resistor at Radio Shack for $1.00 it is brown and about 3 inches long, 1/4 inch square. I have a drawing of the wiring schematic if you need, e-mail.

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Bob M

11-14-2001 12:24:29




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 Re: A Bob M or anyone else charging ? in reply to Paul Shuler, 11-14-2001 11:14:21  
Hey Paul - Same thing happened to my Super M while at a tractor show a couple years ago. Problem turned out to be the an intermittant malfunction in the alternator's internal regulator. Replacing the regulator solved the problem.

Testing for a failed regulator is simple: Look for a 1/4" dia hole in the alternator end bell. About 1/4" inside this hole find a short metal tab. You bypass the regulator by taking a screwdriver and CAREFULLY inserting it to ground the metal tab to the end bell with the motor running at full RPM. If the alternator charges with the tab grounded, you know the regulator is bad. (If it does not charge with the tab grounded, the problem is elsewhere - bad brushes, failed diodes, open winding, etc)

The regulator is easy to replace in place - you don't need to remove the alternator from the engine. First remove the ground cable from the battery. Then take out the three long cap screws the holds the end bell onto the alternator. Now carefully pry end bell off. Inside the end bell you'll find the regulator - the small white plastic device with 4 connections. Simply undo the connections and swap out the bad regulator. Finally reverse the process to reassemble. (Tip: Before you replace the alternator end bell, push both brushes all the way into their holders and temporarily hold them in place with a straightened paperclip inserted in the holes provided in the end bell and brush holders. Then after the end bell is bolted back on, pull out the paper clip out - the brushes will drop onto the slip rings and you'll be set to go).

Find a regulator at NAPA, any starter and alternator shop, etc. Last one I bought was about $10. Also it's a "one size fits all" regulator for all Delco 10SI and 15SI alternators.

Good luck!! Bob M...

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Paul Shuler

11-14-2001 16:28:36




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 Re: Re: A Bob M or anyone else charging ? in reply to Bob M, 11-14-2001 12:24:29  
Wow Bob, that would be great if that would fix it. The alt. is only a year old, wonder if they would warranty the thing.Also I didn't check the little dummy light cause I put it up behind the gauges and on my C that means pulling the batt box to look at it and I didn't have much time today. If that little light went bad would that cause this? Should it be lit or out when tractor is running? I never fully understood the whole little dummy light thing but it was in the schematic so I used it. Thanks Bob and to all others that had a reply.How long do you thing the lights would run with a fully charged batt with the alt not working? Don't know If I'll get the chance to fix it before Sat.

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Bob M

11-14-2001 17:18:50




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 Re: Re: Re: A Bob M or anyone else charging ? in reply to Paul Shuler, 11-14-2001 16:28:36  
Paul - If the idiot light burns out the alternator will not work. On the other hand if you position the light where you can see it, you know if/when the alternator stops charging without reading the ammeter. That's why I prefer to install the light where I can see it, especially if others are gonna be running my tractors.

Normal idiot light indications:
Ign off, engine stopped - dark
Ign on, engine stopped - lit
Ign on, engine running, alternator not charging - lit
Ign on, engine running, alternator charging - dark
Ignition off, engine coasting to stop - lit (usually flickers...)

How long will it run on just the battery? With a fully charged battery and the lights off, 12 - 16+ hours can be expected. With lights on (assuming three 37 watt tractor lights), I've run 2 - 4+ hours - though for the last 1/2 hour the lights get kinda dim... This of course assumes a good, fully charged battery and only one or two uses of the starter.

On other suggestion: Double check the fan belt tension! Even though the alternator may look like it is spinning properly, the belt can be slipping enough to prevent it from "turning on". (I learned this the hard way....)

Good luck!! ...Bob M

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Ron

11-14-2001 12:01:13




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 Re: A Bob M or anyone else charging ? in reply to Paul Shuler, 11-14-2001 11:14:21  
You need a smaller pulley on the alternator to make it turn faster.



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scotty

11-14-2001 11:37:25




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 Re: A Bob M or anyone else charging ? in reply to Paul Shuler, 11-14-2001 11:14:21  
Paul,
I know absolutely nothing about an M. But was
wondering if you have a cutout on your alternator
like I have on my generator? To get my battery to
charge I sometimes have to pull the cover off
of the cutout and manually push down on the contact arm for generator to begin charging the
battery, the coil in the cutout must loose the
field.
Good Luck
scotty



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