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6 volt versus12 volt

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Marv

09-03-2001 17:48:47




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I see a lot of stuff posted about converting to 12 volt. Does that mean our forefathers didn't know what they were doing when they came out with 6 volt systems? I don't think so. Yeah, 6 volt requires bigger wire and so forth. But a 6 volt tractor tuned and adjusted like it should be anyway will start just as well as a 12 volt. I think many times the desire to convert to 12 volt just overcomes problems that should have been fixed. What do you think?

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Russ

09-05-2001 18:48:29




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 Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Marv, 09-03-2001 17:48:47  
I heard a logical reason for the change was in the 50's when people started wanting power accesories, 12 volt works far better for small motors like power windows, convertible tops,ect. Look at the cordless drill industry, my first was about 4 volts and pretty useless, now I have a 14.4 that will drill 1/2 holes in steel and there are 24 volts available. I think when you go much above 24v there may be a shock hazard. ps, but my tractors are still 6 volt!

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Russ

09-05-2001 18:48:14




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 Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Marv, 09-03-2001 17:48:47  
I heard a logical reason for the change was in the 50's when people started wanting power accesories, 12 volt works far better for small motors like power windows, convertible tops,ect. Look at the cordless drill industry, my first was about 4 volts and pretty useless, now I have a 14.4 that will drill 1/2 holes in steel and there are 24 volts available. I think when you go much above 24v there may be a shock hazard. ps, but my tractors are still 6 volt!

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gene b

09-04-2001 20:38:57




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 Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Marv, 09-03-2001 17:48:47  
how do you people think we got where we are today when these were new and we used them everyday year around with old single wt oil lower octane gas and on and on they worked great didny see anyone pulling them down the road and so forth you took care of them didnt go to a discount store and buy cheap cables if you will spend half the money and do it correct they will start on 6v you dont put your car on 24v if it doesent start

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Denny Frisk

09-05-2001 14:30:40




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 Re: Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to gene b, 09-04-2001 20:38:57  
Well, My Super H is converted to 12V, and I wouldn't want it changed back. I push snow with it in the winter and it starts right up. It sits inside where I can heat it up and has a block heater on it, but the alternator charges the battery even at an idle with the lights on. The old 6V generator never did that! I guess I don't have a problem with My car & truck starting because they're Already 12 V alternators, Just like My Super H now! We're going to be driving cars in a few years with 42 volt electrical systems. By then 6V will be priced out of existance and 12 V will start to fade away.

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The Red

09-05-2001 10:07:49




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 Re: Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to gene b, 09-04-2001 20:38:57  
Gene, around central Indiana 6 volt batteries are getting quite expensive. It makes sense to convert and spend half as much for a 12 volt battery. Especially since the Hs have such a small battery size, they usually last only 3 years.



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Dave G

09-04-2001 19:57:02




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 Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Marv, 09-03-2001 17:48:47  
6 Volts was just a bad idea! Sure a well tuned tractor might start on 6 V, but it is marginal and not robust. That is why we are at 12V and that will only increase. Ohm's Law says that Voltage drop = Current X Resistance. This means that for a 6 V system you will get twice the voltage drop across every resistance (wire, connection, etc.) because a 6V system requires twice the current as a 12V system (and you only have 6 volts to start with so how much do you want to loose - keep that electrical system perfect). Remember, Power = Current X Voltage, hence 6V draws twice the current. This is also why AC power to your house is transmitted at very high voltage and then transformed down at your house - to minimize losses.

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Marv

09-05-2001 16:41:53




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 Re: Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Dave G, 09-04-2001 19:57:02  
You are right about 6 volt requiring twice the current hence the bigger wire sizes. If memory serves me correctly that's why everyone starting going to 12 volts in the late 50's, to save on wire size, not because 12 volts was necessarily better. I believe almost everyone converting an older tractor to 12 volts leaves the 6 volt starter in the tractor. That's kinda like converting your car to 24 volts and leaving the 12 volt starter in it. In fact I sorta did that once to an old truck once that I had to keep 50w oil in it even in the winter. Even at 20 below that truck would turn over like it was summer. So to make a long story short, I still think a properly tuned 6 volt system with all the right wire sizes will start just as well in the winter as a 12 volt system. Just my opinion.

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joe

09-04-2001 17:56:22




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 Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Marv, 09-03-2001 17:48:47  
our m on 12 volts will start year round especially when needed to plow snow. the h is 6 volts and will not start from nov to april. on a nice spring day in april it turns right over even though you thought battery was dead for 5 months. hence 12 volts needed



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David A

09-04-2001 16:46:04




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 Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Marv, 09-03-2001 17:48:47  
I hate to see the 6V tractors needlessly converted to 12. Except for some of the reasons Bob M mentioned and operation in REALLY cold weather I would not do it.
David A



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jmyt_47

09-04-2001 12:05:49




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 Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Marv, 09-03-2001 17:48:47  
TRY starting your 6v tractor in January when it's 10 to 20 below zero to clear the driveway.... Even with a block heater, the tractor will barely turn over fast enough with 6v. A 12v conversion makes things a lot easier.



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Kendall

09-04-2001 10:20:46




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 Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Marv, 09-03-2001 17:48:47  
Just when you get use to 12Volt systems ,the auto industry is now pushing for 42Volt systems. Be on the lookout in the future.



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Jesse H

09-04-2001 10:00:18




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 Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Marv, 09-03-2001 17:48:47  
Regarding the switchover of 6 volt to 12 volt systems. Living in North Dakota and attempting to start a tractor with the 6 volt system in the winter is anything but fun. There is a lot to be said about keeping maintenance up to promote easy starting, but there is no comparison to the starting power of 12 volts. I switched my M over for less than $40 (not including battery), the reliability and peace of mind is worth it.

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Bob M

09-04-2001 06:57:11




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 Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Marv, 09-03-2001 17:48:47  
I agree - a well-maintained tractor will start reliably on the original 6 volt system. Converting to 12 volts is a poor excuse to ignore other maintenance problems. However there are a few more good reasons for converting to 12 volt alternator:

Low maintenance - Modern alternators are pretty much maintenance free. Unlike a 6 volt generator/regulator, and alternator will work reliably for many years without any attention whatsoever. Also replacement parts when required are more readily available, and much cheaper. So if you're gonna use your tractor for work, this is a pretty compelling reason all by itself.

Lights - 12 volts permits the use of modern tractor flood lights. 6 volt lamps are increasingly hard to find, are expensive, and provide marginal illumination levels at best. Again if you plan work your tractor after dark, this highly supports a 12 volt conversion.

Convenience - A 12 volt tractor can be safely jumped from any modern car/pickup, and vice-versa. But this is not the case with 6 volts. Also you can share 12 volt batteries across equipment more readily (example - I haven't yet figured out a way to use both my boat and my tractor at the same time. So I own only one 12 volt battery for the pair and "time share" it between them - that's one less battery I gotta buy/maintain.)

Maintains charge at low speeds - Many of the hours my tractors run is spent at idle or low speeds. A 6 volt generator struggles to keep the battery charged under these conditions, especially if using lights. An alternator on the other hand keeps the battery up very nicely under these conditions.

Finally, not all hard starting is the result of poor maintenance. My Super M is equipped with aftermarket high compression kit piston kit (adds 5 HP or so) Problem is that even with the 6 volt electrics in perfect condition, cranking the high compression engine is marginal at best. When the temperature drops below 10 deg or so it becomes nearly impossible. Converting to 12 volts completely overcame this problem.

Don't get me wrong.....I'm not a 12 volt zealot! I also own a 6 volt tractor (a Super H). It gets maintained it like it's supposed to be maintained, and it rewards me by starting reliably whenever I ask. Also, I rather like the sound of a 6 volt engine getting cranked up - the slow roll as opposed to the quick 12 volt spin. Kinda reminiscent of a slower, easier time I guess.

My 2 cents....Bob M

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Charlie

09-04-2001 14:18:07




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 Re: Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Bob M, 09-04-2001 06:57:11  
You've pretty much listed the reasons I converted my H and M to 12 volts. These are my work horse tractors otherwise I might not have done it. You can get a better selection of batteries with 12v over 6.



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Bill Smith

09-03-2001 19:28:15




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 Re: 6 volt versus12 volt in reply to Marv, 09-03-2001 17:48:47  
I share a simular opinion with you on this. I think alot of times people have a weak system becuase of a bad battery or a weak charge on the generator or something and they just get converting to 12 volt in there head rather than fixing existing system. I seen a good comment on this a while back. If you start having trouble with the 12 volt system, are you going to convert to 24 volt? I thought that was a good point.

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