b414 not charging

Kylemac

New User
my tractor is not charging
when i check the battery with a multimeter its around 12.4-12.5 and when i start it it drops to 12.3
so i researched testing alternators and i cant get any more then 12.3 when running.
its a 3 wire alternator. there was no dummy light hooked up so i bought one wired it in and when i turn the key on it comes on and stays on after i start it.
So the way its wired is- wire from alt b post to amp gauge then from amp gauge to battery pos.
-ground to the the frame, 1 terminal going to the dummy light then to the key switch, the other terminal going to volt regulator then to key switch
with my meter going from pos on battery to pos on alt and i get a reading of 0 same with the neg. i go pos from batt to ground of alt and i get 12.5 batt reading so i think my connections there are good. iv tried having the tractor at full idle for a minute or too and still no charge. iv tried exciting the alt with a jumper wire from b post to terminal still no change. bought a new alt hooked it up the same and still no change.
so is there something im missing here? maybe the new alternator i bought is a dud (it was a cheap refurbished one)

so when i hooked the new alt up it had no markings on the terminal so i hooked the dummy light up and it would only light on the one terminal when the key was on so im assuming thats the right one

also another question when i first started looking into this problem i think the wire coming from the volt regulator was on the terminal for the dummy light when i unplugged it it seem like the alternator slowed down? and when i touched it back on it seemed like it sped up or maybe vice versa i cant remember now

anyways if you made it to the end of the post and have any advice it would be much appreciated
thanks

This post was edited by Kylemac on 06/01/2023 at 05:26 am.
 
We need you to tell us what type or brand of alternator you have. The most common 3 wire alternator is a Delco 10si, compare what you have to the example Delco 10si alternator I have placed in the 1st link. Very unusual for any 10si not to have the flat spade connectors to the internal regulator labeled 1 and 2. Or did you get an alternator specifically to fit your tractor model as in requested at the parts counter a replacement alternator for a IH B414? If so and it just happens to have 3 wires that connect to it this is two quite different scenarios. The 2nd link is a generic wiring diagram for a Delco 3 wire alternators. If you bought a 3 wire alternator as shown this is how it connects. If yours has no markings follow the pictures of the example alternator it is clearly marked. Not sure if your tractor originally had an alternator or generator but either way any wires on the original voltage regulator need to be disconnected and taped. So just to be clear flat spade terminal 1 connects to your light wire or utilizes a diode and is fed from the ignition switch powered when on. Flat spade terminal 2 just has a short jumper back to the large terminal on the back of the alternator. Now if the configuration of you alternator is different from what is shown you will have to explain what you have or give a brand and part number. Or I see you posted a picture in your ..distributor post.. so a picture of your alternator would be better yet.

Also to be clear I believe it is just a punctuation issue. You typed ..So the way its wire is- wire from alt b post to amp gauge then from amp gauge to battery pos
ground to the the frame.. I assume there should be a comma after ..battery pos, and the next part means that the negative battery post cable connects to the frame?? Just a bit confusing, bottom line is if you have a Delco 3 wire alternator follow my provided diagram and all should be good.
Example Delco 10si

Delco 10si wiring
 
So here s a pic of the old alt, it says delco-remi on it

mvphoto106265.jpg


mvphoto106266.jpg


And the new one I got was a cheap 3 wire alt from Amazon, I ll post a link

Remy 20182 Premium Remanufactured Alternator https://a.co/d/6czZTc8[/img]

This post was edited by Kylemac on 06/01/2023 at 04:56 am.
 
The alternator you purchased is a replica of a Delco 10 DN. It is externally regulated and though it has 3 wires and a ground, it is not wired as a 10SI 3 wire (internally regulated). I believe your voltage regulator is totally generic. This means it is usable but not as a normal 10DN is wired with a warning light. The regulator has 2 terminals one labeled IGN should have full voltage from the key. NO warning light in that wire. the other terminal goes to the Field spade lug in the hole of the alternator. NO light in that circuit either. The warning light resistance cannot be in that regulating circuit. The amp gauge will be the only indicator of charging, and when the battery is charged, the amp gauge will be near the center showing little charging. a correctly installed self mounted volt meter will show actual charging voltage (should be 14.2 to 14.6 at 1/2 throttle) The former information I provided was for a UK manufactured 414. I had no way of knowing what you have. Jim
 
That is a Delco 10DN alternator which requires an
external regulator. The external regulator that I am
aware of that pairs with it or at least in its common
application on 1960s to early 70s GM vehicles had 4
connections on it see link. It will be a couple hours
before I can look into this more. If it was me personally
I would change it over to an internal regulator Delco
10si.
Common External regulator for a Delco 10DN alt
 
Here is an old Tech Tip from Delco Remy:
Tech Tip: Flash the Field, March 01, 2013
Categories: Tech Tips
If youve installed an alternator and it wont charge, dont remove it just yet. Heres why: most Delco Remy alternators have Auto Start capability that doesnt require a separate wire to excite the alternator to charge. During the manufacturing or remanufacturing processwhen each alternator is tested for performancea residual magnetism is generated in the alternator, so it begins charging as soon as the vehicle starts.
On rare occasions, the alternator can become demagnetized when its been on the shelf for a prolonged period of time. When that happens, the voltmeter indicates battery voltage instead of the typical alternator charging voltage.
Before you remove the alternator, first try to determine if a loss of residual magnetism is causing the loss of voltage. You can do this by flashing the field:
1. With the vehicle ignition in the off position, remove the rubber boot from the alternator battery terminal and the rubber grommet from the small R terminal.
2. Take a small piece of wire and touch one end of it to the battery alternator terminal. Then touch the other end to the small R terminal. (Note: This may create a small spark, which is normal.)
3. Remove the wire and start the vehicle. The voltmeter should now increase its voltage reading to around 14volts.
4. If the alternator isnt charging, then re-check all connections and belt tension before removing the alternator.
5. Put the rubber boot and the rubber grommet back on.

From an old post for Alternator testing by Owen AaLand:

Delco alternators were used on US tractors. They used both external regulator type (10DN) and internal regulator style (10SI) depending upon when the tractor was built. You can tell the difference by looking at the plug with the two small wires. If the plug attaches to the alternator from the rear it is a 10DN series with external regulator. If the plug goes in from the side of the alternator it has an internal regulator and is a 10SI series alternator.

To check a 10DN series alternator there should be battery voltage to the large terminal at all times. The F terminal should have voltage to it with the switch on. Since the power is coming from the switch through a light bulb and/or resistor this will be less than battery voltage. The R terminal should have voltage when the alternator is charging. It is used to close a relay in the voltage regulator which bypasses the dash light and resistor. To bypass the regulator to check for maximum output unplug the field (F) terminal and apply battery voltage.

To check a 10SI series alternator there should be battery voltage at the large terminal and the #2 terminal at all times. With the ignition switch on there should be voltage at the #1 terminal. This voltage should be about 1/2 half battery voltage or more. To bypass the internal regulator there is a tab just inside the D shaped hole in the back of the alternator. Shorting this tab to the case will put the alternator into maximum charge.
 

Would it be better just to switch to this alternator?

mvphoto106271.png


mvphoto106272.png


This post was edited by Kylemac on 06/01/2023 at 02:38 pm.
 
too late now, but you could have used one of these to convert to make that 10DN a 1 wire and do away with the regualtor (Yours appears to be a cutout)
 
Just wanted to give an update

i just installed the ACDelco Gold 334-2114 Alternator and eliminated the external voltage regulator
and i am now charging.

thanks everyone for the help
 

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