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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

remove SW4 starter - again !

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jCarroll

11-24-2022 07:25:38




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On Sept 12 I posted a question on how to remove the starter from my brother's Super W4 (serial # 2763J). He is 250 miles away (so is the tractor). I received a few responses (thanks) but none seemed straightforward based on what my brother told me over the phone.
Two weeks ago I visited him, and had the starter in my own hands. After turning it 17 ways, twisting every which way - I'm ready to say that starter does not just come out. The end cap hits the capscrew head which holds the block to the clutch-transmission case.
His next option is to try to remove the starter screws which hold the end cap and see if it can be removed/disassembled while the starter is on the tractor.
As best we can tell this is the correct starter - not a larger, heavy duty version. He is not the original owner - believes it was sold new in Manitoba.
Anybody got the magic password?

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mccormicksw4

11-27-2022 05:05:57




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
belt pulley, belt pulley gearbox but IH most likely called it a belt pulley attachment Rustred and I both properly described how to remove the starter. Old guys with sore fingers and poor keyboard skills may not articulate the process as well as others but if someone asks a question, he may need to think about it. The OP was not near the tractor and was coaching a third party so it understandable
but how would removing the belt pulley aid in removing the starter?? It was hitting the gearbox so take the leap and remove the belt pulley gearbox

Third Party Image

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Jim Becker

11-25-2022 20:11:11




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeIt is funny. I almost left the "MD" in what I quoted. I took it out because the point, the only point, I was trying to make was that when the belt pulley was introduced to the discussion the phrase was "belt Pulley housing". That the poster was talking about an MD is beside the point.



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mccormicksw4

11-25-2022 17:29:26




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see negatory good buddy :idea: they only made a few hundred 1954s as sales were dropping off on the SW4s. not difference between any SW4s



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BarnyardEngineering

11-25-2022 17:24:24




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
Did ih ever switch to a full "Stage II" on the SW4? I mean three bolt starter and frame rails instead of the tub.



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rustred

11-25-2022 17:48:40




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to BarnyardEngineering, 11-25-2022 17:24:24  
no, they just had improvements on the last w4's which is the same as the supers. such as solenoid on the starter instead of the foot button. disc brakes, seal beam lights , bigger carb. new style front hubs, its the same deal as when the super w6's came out in 52, then in 53 you could have the tub model and the frame rail model, w4 only had the tub frame. this w4 of mine is right at the end with the super options.

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mccormicksw4

11-25-2022 17:15:16




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I get ya, hands on guy ... I get misread all the time. grumpy old men :?: :D



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mccormicksw4

11-25-2022 17:12:26




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see thats funny.- you took words out- the quote you posted was in reference to an MD. Your quote is out of context when you remove the model
I don't know why ppl give advise about other models . The MD starter is very long compared to an M so its an anomaly I had to take the exhaust off a 2.2l Sonoma to get the starter off. got nothing to do with a W4 :idea:

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mccormicksw4

11-25-2022 16:47:26




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
evrything rustred said is correct about the gearbox. I just replied to the other thread. I haven't been on here for a while and had to take one off so I tried the " other way" which I knew would not work but I don't come on here to pi$$ ppl off
https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1585225
I suggest putting clothes pins on the 2 long bolts that won't come out so they are clear for the r&r ( the 2 bolts towards the front)
This post was edited by mccormicksw4 on 11/25/2022 at 04:48 pm.

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rustred

11-25-2022 17:05:28




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to mccormicksw4, 11-25-2022 16:47:26  
thanks there SW4 , most of my posts are with hands on experience on these old tractors. not just reading posts and saying maybe this maybe that. too many people posting like that, which gets the poster confused and dont know who is correct. know your stuff, something like the mantracker used to say . in this case its mantractor lol. i dont come here to pizz people off either, but when i see stupid stuff it pizzes me off. so now everyone should know how to remove a starter on a w4.

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Jim Becker

11-25-2022 09:37:21




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeHowever, in the September thread the very first reference to a belt pulley was:

Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

People type all those words in because they mean something. The readers should read them all to get the message.



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BarnyardEngineering

11-25-2022 07:01:49




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
Unfortunately you got caught thinking literally in the presence of a colloquialism. "Belt pulley" is commonly used to refer to the entire belt pulley drive unit.



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SadFarmall

11-24-2022 16:55:14




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
I believe help is being sought here. Some things are immediately clear to one person and opaque to another. I've made mistakes enough in mechanical repairs and no doubt will make more - not sure boots and coveralls will be going into a sack though.

SadFarmall



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jCarroll

11-25-2022 05:34:12




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to SadFarmall, 11-24-2022 16:55:14  
Thanks SadFarmall for seeing the big picture, and giving me a break.
And thanks, rustred for your photos.

I admit when I first read 'remove belt pulley' my mind said the round thing which the belt runs on and that was where I stayed stuck until .....

Maybe when it turns warm in mid-MIchigan I can post the end of this story.



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Fritz Maurer

11-25-2022 11:08:54




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-25-2022 05:34:12  
Hopefully by then all the grouches will still be asleep



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caterpillar guy

11-24-2022 16:12:37




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
Cast housing for the belt pulley is in the way just like on our MD you have to move the belt pulley to get the starter off also. It would be easier to just eliminate the belt pulley and plate over it but didn't want to just pitch a perfectly good housing and pulley set up.



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SadFarmall

11-24-2022 15:55:28




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
The issue you have is that the cast housing, containing gear and shaft for the belt pulley will not allow the starter body to be pulled back sufficiently to allow removal from the tractor. The third photograph shows that best.
Undo the bolts securing the entire belt pulley housing to the tractor. They generally come out fairly easily. Lift the housing out of the way, taking care not to crush fingers.
Removing the sediment bowl first is indeed a good idea - saves breaking the glass.
Removing the long machine screws from the body of the starter will not help - good chance of damaging the starter motor when you try to extract it in pieces.
If the rods in Rustred's photograph are not on your tractor, that is one less job for you to do when removing the starter.
SadFarmall
This post was edited by SadFarmall on 11/24/2022 at 03:56 pm.

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jCarroll

11-24-2022 15:21:07




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
I don't get the belt pulley involvement. On this tractor the belt pulley is on the right side - the starter is on the left side.
The rods which rustred shows just about the starter switch are not in this location on this tractor ??



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rustred

11-24-2022 16:16:21




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 15:21:07  
man ooh man ,... i guess i need to draw a picture!!! dont you see the belt pulley drive is in the way ??? i am not just referring to the pulley itself. holy man. better get someone to do this job. nothing hard here at all. reminds me when i was working on the oil rigs. had a new roughneck come running up on the floor holding the grease gun all apart ,both ends. and a tube of grease. he said this grease is blue and the one in the grease gun is red will that work. i said give me this and go get a sawdust sack. then he comes running up the floor and says i brought you 2 sacks. i said good,put those dirty coveralls in one and your dirty boots in the other one and get out of here.

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rustred

11-24-2022 09:12:38




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
here you go,... i said last time to remove the belt pulley. the starter will not come out till you do this,... its 6 1/2 inch bolts that take a 3/4 wrench or socket. plus be best to remove the sediment bowl for up clearance. is the belt pulley removed or in place when you are twisting it 17 ways??? Third Party Image

Third Party Image

Third Party Image

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rustred

11-24-2022 16:21:47




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to rustred, 11-24-2022 09:12:38  
look here in picture #3... i am showing you the pulley drive housing is in the way. take it off, lift it up or do what you want, i said to remove it due to the gasket might get screwed up.



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rustred

11-24-2022 13:54:18




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to rustred, 11-24-2022 09:12:38  
oops i lied, its 6 7/16 bolts for the belt pulley.



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used red MN

11-24-2022 07:56:41




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 Re: remove SW4 starter - again ! in reply to jCarroll, 11-24-2022 07:25:38  
It seems to me as I read it the consensus is that the belt pulley gear case needs loosened and raised up off the dowels and turned just enough to let starter come out. I attached the previous post.



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