remove SW4 starter - again !

jCarroll · Nov 24, 2022

On Sept 12 I posted a question on how to remove the starter from my brother's Super W4 (serial # 2763J). He is 250 miles away (so is the tractor). I received a few responses (thanks) but none seemed straightforward based on what my brother told me over the phone.
Two weeks ago I visited him, and had the starter in my own hands. After turning it 17 ways, twisting every which way - I'm ready to say that starter does not just come out. The end cap hits the capscrew head which holds the block to the clutch-transmission case.
His next option is to try to remove the starter screws which hold the end cap and see if it can be removed/disassembled while the starter is on the tractor.
As best we can tell this is the correct starter - not a larger, heavy duty version. He is not the original owner - believes it was sold new in Manitoba.
Anybody got the magic password?

used red MN · Nov 24, 2022

It seems to me as I read it the consensus is that the belt pulley gear case needs loosened and raised up off the dowels and turned just enough to let starter come out. I attached the previous post.
Previous post

rustred · Nov 24, 2022

here you go,... i said last time to remove the belt pulley. the starter will not come out till you do this,... its 6 1/2 inch bolts that take a 3/4 wrench or socket. plus be best to remove the sediment bowl for up clearance. is the belt pulley removed or in place when you are twisting it 17 ways???

rustred · Nov 24, 2022

oops i lied, its 6 7/16 bolts for the belt pulley.

jCarroll · Nov 24, 2022

I don't get the belt pulley involvement. On this tractor the belt pulley is on the right side - the starter is on the left side.
The rods which rustred shows just about the starter switch are not in this location on this tractor ??

SadFarmall · Nov 24, 2022

The issue you have is that the cast housing, containing gear and shaft for the belt pulley will not allow the starter body to be pulled back sufficiently to allow removal from the tractor. The third photograph shows that best.
Undo the bolts securing the entire belt pulley housing to the tractor. They generally come out fairly easily. Lift the housing out of the way, taking care not to crush fingers.
Removing the sediment bowl first is indeed a good idea - saves breaking the glass.
Removing the long machine screws from the body of the starter will not help - good chance of damaging the starter motor when you try to extract it in pieces.
If the rods in Rustred's photograph are not on your tractor, that is one less job for you to do when removing the starter.
SadFarmall

This post was edited by SadFarmall on 11/24/2022 at 03:56 pm.

caterpillar guy · Nov 24, 2022

Cast housing for the belt pulley is in the way just like on our MD you have to move the belt pulley to get the starter off also. It would be easier to just eliminate the belt pulley and plate over it but didn't want to just pitch a perfectly good housing and pulley set up.

rustred · Nov 24, 2022

man ooh man ,... i guess i need to draw a picture!!! dont you see the belt pulley drive is in the way ??? i am not just referring to the pulley itself. holy man. better get someone to do this job. nothing hard here at all. reminds me when i was working on the oil rigs. had a new roughneck come running up on the floor holding the grease gun all apart ,both ends. and a tube of grease. he said this grease is blue and the one in the grease gun is red will that work. i said give me this and go get a sawdust sack. then he comes running up the floor and says i brought you 2 sacks. i said good,put those dirty coveralls in one and your dirty boots in the other one and get out of here.

rustred · Nov 24, 2022

look here in picture #3... i am showing you the pulley drive housing is in the way. take it off, lift it up or do what you want, i said to remove it due to the gasket might get screwed up.

SadFarmall · Nov 24, 2022

I believe help is being sought here. Some things are immediately clear to one person and opaque to another. I've made mistakes enough in mechanical repairs and no doubt will make more - not sure boots and coveralls will be going into a sack though.
SadFarmall

jCarroll · Nov 25, 2022

Thanks SadFarmall for seeing the big picture, and giving me a break.
And thanks, rustred for your photos.

I admit when I first read 'remove belt pulley' my mind said the round thing which the belt runs on
and that was where I stayed stuck until ......

Maybe when it turns warm in mid-MIchigan I can post the end of this story.

BarnyardEngineering · Nov 25, 2022

Unfortunately you got caught thinking literally in the presence of a colloquialism. "Belt pulley" is commonly used to refer to the entire belt pulley drive unit.

Jim Becker · Nov 25, 2022

(quoted from post at 10:01:49 11/25/22) Unfortunately you got caught thinking literally in the presence of a colloquialism. "Belt pulley" is commonly used to refer to the entire belt pulley drive unit.

owever, in the September thread the very first reference to a belt pulley was:

you got to take the belt Pulley housing off,

People type all those words in because they mean something. The readers should read them all to get the message.

Fritz Maurer · Nov 25, 2022

Hopefully by then all the grouches will still be asleep

mccormicksw4 · Nov 25, 2022

evrything rustred said is correct about the gearbox. I just replied to the other thread. I haven't been on here for a while and had to take one off so I tried the " other way" which I knew would not work but I don't come on here to pi$$ ppl off
https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1585225
I suggest putting clothes pins on the 2 long bolts that won't come out so they are clear for the r&r ( the 2 bolts towards the front)

This post was edited by mccormicksw4 on 11/25/2022 at 04:48 pm.

rustred · Nov 25, 2022

thanks there SW4 , most of my posts are with hands on experience on these old tractors. not just reading posts and saying maybe this maybe
that. too many people posting like that, which gets the poster confused and dont know who is correct. know your stuff, something like the
mantracker used to say . in this case its mantractor lol. i dont come here to pizz people off either, but when i see stupid stuff it pizzes
me off. so now everyone should know how to remove a starter on a w4.

mccormicksw4 · Nov 25, 2022

(quoted from post at 10:37:21 11/25/22) .However, in the September thread the very first reference to a belt pulley was:

you got to take the belt Pulley housing off,

Click to expand...

People type all those words in because they mean something. The readers should read them all to get the message.

thats funny.- you took words out- the quote you posted was in reference to an MD. Your quote is out of context when you remove the model
I don't know why ppl give advise about other models . The MD starter is very long compared to an M so its an anomaly
I had to take the exhaust off a 2.2l Sonoma to get the starter off. got nothing to do with a W4 :idea:

mccormicksw4 · Nov 25, 2022

(quoted from post at 18:05:28 11/25/22) thanks there SW4 , most of my posts are with hands on experience on these old tractors. not just reading posts and saying maybe this maybe
that. too many people posting like that, which gets the poster confused and dont know who is correct. know your stuff, something like the
mantracker used to say . in this case its mantractor lol. i dont come here to pizz people off either, but when i see stupid stuff it pizzes
me off. so now everyone should know how to remove a starter on a w4.

I get ya, hands on guy ... I get misread all the time. grumpy old men :?:

BarnyardEngineering · Nov 25, 2022

Did ih ever switch to a full "Stage II" on the SW4? I mean three bolt starter and frame rails instead of the tub.

mccormicksw4 · Nov 25, 2022

(quoted from post at 18:24:24 11/25/22) Did ih ever switch to a full "Stage II" on the SW4? I mean three bolt starter and frame rails instead of the tub.

negatory good buddy :idea: they only made a few hundred 1954s as sales were dropping off on the SW4s. not difference between any SW4s

rustred · Nov 25, 2022

no, they just had improvements on the last w4's which is the same as the supers. such as solenoid on the starter instead of the foot button.
disc brakes, seal beam lights , bigger carb. new style front hubs, its the same deal as when the super w6's came out in 52, then in 53 you
could have the tub model and the frame rail model, w4 only had the tub frame. this w4 of mine is right at the end with the super options.

Jim Becker · Nov 25, 2022

(quoted from post at 20:12:26 11/25/22)

(quoted from post at 10:37:21 11/25/22) .However, in the September thread the very first reference to a belt pulley was:

you got to take the belt Pulley housing off,

Click to expand...

People type all those words in because they mean something. The readers should read them all to get the message.

Click to expand...

thats funny.- you took words out- the quote you posted was in reference to an MD. Your quote is out of context when you remove the model
I don't know why ppl give advise about other models . The MD starter is very long compared to an M so its an anomaly
I had to take the exhaust off a 2.2l Sonoma to get the starter off. got nothing to do with a W4 :idea:

t is funny. I almost left the "MD" in what I quoted. I took it out because the point, the only point, I was trying to make was that when the belt pulley was introduced to the discussion the phrase was "belt Pulley housing". That the poster was talking about an MD is beside the point.

mccormicksw4 · Nov 27, 2022

belt pulley, belt pulley gearbox but IH most likely called it a belt pulley attachment Rustred and I both properly described how to remove the starter. Old guys with sore fingers and poor keyboard skills may not articulate the process as well as others but if someone asks a question, he may need to think about it. The OP was not near the tractor and was coaching a third party so it understandable
but how would removing the belt pulley aid in removing the starter?? It was hitting the gearbox so take the leap and remove the [u:18583f6dc7]belt pulley gearbox[/u:18583f6dc7]

remove SW4 starter - again !

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