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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb

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littlefarmer

11-26-2021 16:11:43




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I'm looking at replacing the IH carb on my 656, with one of the Marvel Schebler ones sold on this website.

I was wondering if others have done this, and what modifications need to be done.

It looks like the Marvel-Schebler has various adjustments available on the throttle lever. I was wondering about the choke. Because on the IH, the choke cable attaches to the back side of the carb. But the MS seems to come in the front.

Also--what about the fuel line connection? The IH fuel line curves around and comes into the IH carburetor from the front. But the Marvel seems to have a port on the side, and also on the backside. Does this mean I need to fabricate a different fuel line?

Has anyone else used these MS carburetors on a 656? How do they work out?

Any advice on this is much appreciated!

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KFFarm

11-29-2021 19:00:45




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 Re: Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb in reply to littlefarmer, 11-26-2021 16:11:43  
Give it a good dose of sea foam, maybe get some 100 low lead at gas from a nearby airport. You might also try opening up the main fuel screw some too. My 806 gas needs more or less choke when cold depending on how we set the main fuel screw.



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pete 23

11-29-2021 15:10:59




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 Re: Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb in reply to littlefarmer, 11-26-2021 16:11:43  
After working on the 460 and 560 carburetors for years, that one on the 656 was a dream. I would never put a marvel on anything.

The one thing that really gets over looked is proper ignition timing and that can make a real spitting sputtering dog out of a good running tractor. You need to have that timed at full throttle. The degree advance is right about 17 degrees at full throttle. I am not sure of the exact figure but that is darn close. So many time them where they sound the best and almost any gasoline engine sounds the best at no load when timing is wayyyyy yy over advanced.

If you set the timing right and it doesn't run right, then you can go for carburetor or fuel flow , float setting, incorrect venturi, wrong main jet, wrong nozzle what ever.

As for the manifold. Most neglected part of the entire tractor. I got in the habit of taking them apart on every valve job, overhaul job or even major tuneup if problems. They get so choked up with carbon you cannot head the incoming mixture. And, the valve in manifold along with spring half the time don't work.

If you take them apart on a regular basis, they come apart like they should. Otherwise, like the Vet said, they are really miserable. BUT, don't forget the gasket. TWO different styles and if you use wrong one you are in deep doo doo. Manifold has to be split when using the good correct one if it had the older style one. Can you say air leaks.

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BarnyardEngineering

11-29-2021 04:16:24




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 Re: Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb in reply to littlefarmer, 11-26-2021 16:11:43  
Yeah but his problem is that he has to run choke ALL THE TIME. That's not a heat riser issue. That's a fuel delivery issue.

Even with the heat riser working it's not a 100% solution. You still need to have your hand on the choke for the first couple of clutch releases in the morning, and sometimes it will still beat you to the punch.



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rustred

11-29-2021 17:37:48




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 Re: Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb in reply to BarnyardEngineering, 11-29-2021 04:16:24  
ya, that is the problem here and in lots of cases. the backyard guy wants to practice fixing stuff with little know how ,and the know how to people know what the problem is but its all poor communication and then they disappear in the air once things get going. i like to see how and what fixed things. plus there gets too many off the wall comments just as guesses confusing the person. and yes i had a 606 with working heat riser and it still needed choke for at least a minute of running. they are a cold blooded unit. plus u will not get any better info on stuff than pete's hands on info.

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the tractor vet

11-27-2021 09:58:21




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 Re: Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb in reply to littlefarmer, 11-26-2021 16:11:43  
Like Dr. E has said on the heat riser / Stove as it gets built up with carbon deposits and this stops the warming of the intake . along with the heat riser valve/ butterfly and the we will just call it the coil spring on the outside . PLUS there is a lot more that needs looked at as to your problem . Also the dist needs looked at and i don 't mean just looking at it , it needs to be put on a dist strobe and run and the timing curve needs checked and more then likely needs WORK . This is a LOST ART and with each passing day one of us OLD GUYS that can do this are dying off and many of the machines that could do this job have been throwen away and scraped . Is you timing set correctly , probably NOT , are your valves adjusted correctly here again probably NOT . The list just keeps going as to why it is not running like you want it to . And then the gas your feeding it is NOT the gas it needs to run correctly on and i don't give a flying you know what about the LEAD .

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DR. EVIL

11-27-2021 04:05:58




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 Re: Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb in reply to littlefarmer, 11-26-2021 16:11:43  
I think it was The TRACTOR DOCTOR in Red Power Magazine showed the repair steps for fixing a cold blooded gasoline 6 cylinder FARMALL. There's a tempurature sensing flapper valve in the manifold that sticks closed then rusts solid and blocks exhaust heat from warming the intake charge to keep gasoline as a vapor. Running with the choke out is a poor band-aid, the excess gas washes the oil off cylinder walls. Swapping carbs is a step TOTALLY in the wrong direction. It was in an issue of RPM about 2-3 years ago.

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the tractor vet

11-27-2021 08:28:05




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 Re: Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb in reply to DR. EVIL, 11-27-2021 04:05:58  
The problem with tryen to clean the STOVE out is that the intake and exhaust does NOT like to come apart . I don't care how you try it will not end well . Those 4 3/8th bolts will not come out i don't care how much heat , snake oil or words used . It will come down to replacing the exhaust manifold . Then you can get down into the intake and start the cleaning . I had two that i had to DRILL thru the carbon build up . Years of oil burning , leaded gas deposits get real hard . On two i found the butterfly was broken in half . what these young pups don't understand is the use of the choke because they did not grow up with OLD gas engines with carbs . They except to turn the key push the BUTTON and GO . Nah that does not happen . Then gee's got to think here when the AUTOMATIC choke came out HUMMMMM Mm still thinking here , my 56 Ford had a manual choke ----- ----- -- my 61 had a manual choke on the center carb , my one friend's 63 had a manual choke on Both the ft and back carbs . But my one friend did have and automatic choke on his 1960 352 four bbl. . But anyway us OLD timers all knew what every you ran they all needed WARM UP and till they warmed up they would cough fart back fire stumble and at times flat up and die . NO another thing is proper TUNE UPS .

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rustred

11-26-2021 16:17:45




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 Re: Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb in reply to littlefarmer, 11-26-2021 16:11:43  
dont think the M.S. carb will out do the ihc carb. what is wrong with it.? plus you need to worry about it being jetted to the engine correctly.



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littlefarmer

11-26-2021 17:19:29




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 Re: Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb in reply to rustred, 11-26-2021 16:17:45  
I have to run the IH carburetor on my 656 with the choke halfways open. It seems to be an issue with these carburetors. Running lean. I was hoping the Marvel one would fix the problem.

The IH 656 parts book lists a Marvel carb as an alternative. So I'm assuming that even IH thought they were better (?)



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rustred

11-26-2021 17:26:47




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 Re: Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb in reply to littlefarmer, 11-26-2021 17:19:29  
yes that can be perfectly normal on a cold engine. but not once warmed up. if so the carb needs a cleaning. or even install a bigger jet. even the old 460's u had to give them part choke till they warm up.



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504

11-26-2021 18:34:17




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 Re: Farmall 656--replacing IH carburetor with a Marvel-Scheb in reply to rustred, 11-26-2021 17:26:47  
My 656 runs fine with the original carb,I cleaned the carb and put in a good kit. I broke the main jet when the socket slipped or I would have just cleaned it. I pulled the tank and cleaned it,the fuel line,and I took the sediment bowl apart and cleaned it. It runs great. I forgot to tell the story about the inline gas filter.
I had a brand new 3/8 metal filter,it ran good for two hours then started running lean. The new (but twenty year old filter)had rusted in the inside and plugged the filter. I tore the carb back apart but it was clean as a whistle. The secret about inline filters is use a 3/8 and tighten the clamps hard on the 5/16 steel line.

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