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460 pto ?'s

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dwragon

10-31-2021 06:35:53




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I was playing with my new to me 460 and trying to get the pto to work with a bush hog.
1, Is engaged up or down?
2, Is this a live all the time pto?
The pto appears to be working, as it moves (Idling?)even when it should should not, as it turns in any position, put if i rest my shoe sole on it, it stops turning in one position, and then turns if I move the lever.
3. What is the correct process to adjust the PTO, as it has alot of slop in the lever linkage.
4. What controls the PTO RPM, is there a high/low, or is it solely by engine speed, as I can literally count the turns, because it is going so slow, ???

Any assistance would be appreciated.
This post was edited by dwragon on 10/31/2021 at 06:48 am.

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dwragon

11-01-2021 06:16:09




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 Re: 460 pto ?'s in reply to dwragon, 10-31-2021 06:35:53  
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OK, thanks Barnyard Engineering, for the info. I guess thats why it has never been repaired. I never make any type of adjustment to anything when an engine is running except a carb. I will simply treat it as a live PTO until I can locate cost effective parts or build my own.



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BarnyardEngineering

11-01-2021 03:42:05




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 Re: 460 pto ?'s in reply to dwragon, 10-31-2021 06:35:53  
Unfortunately the adjustment procedure for the 300/350U will not work for your PTO unit.

I don't know the procedure for the over center/clutch type PTO, or if there is even a procedure. All I know is, it's different. Plus the parts to rebuild the clutch type PTO are expensive.
This post was edited by BarnyardEngineering on 11/01/2021 at 03:43 am.



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dwragon

10-31-2021 19:05:22




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 Re: 460 pto ?'s in reply to dwragon, 10-31-2021 06:35:53  
A physicist examining the condition of a nuclear missile told me that the stupidest question is one never asked. I have three instances of military service connected MTBI. The questions were stated logically, in search of usable information, not a thesis answer.
Mine is the later "over center" clutch type has the PTO shaft protruding directly through the seal.



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dwragon

10-31-2021 18:49:44




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 Re: 460 pto ?'s in reply to dwragon, 10-31-2021 06:35:53  
Janicholson, I found this through gugle, has any info changed or would be specific to the 460?

350 dave 300U PTO adjustment ?? questions
Re: 350 Farmall PTO will not shut off, in reply by Janicholson, 10-18-2011 The linkage on well used PTOs on the utility series become dysfunctional after years of use.Two suggestions:
Make very sure there is no lost motion in the hand lever pivot and rod mechanism. Be certain the hand lever moves the PTO lever from the middle both ways.
Adjust it like this, after there is no play in links.
Move the lever exactly half way between the locked on position and locked off position (little flipper catch on lever.
Take off the little dome metal cover from the adjust screws.
Loosen the jamb nut, and tighten the front (away from you) screw until it is just a bit tighter than the point at which it begins to feel tighter as it is screwed in (maybe a eighth turn) then back it off until the PTO shaft will turn with least drag (about 3/4 turn out) and tighten the lock nut while holding the adjuster.
Do the same for the closer adjuster.
If the screws go into the jamb nuts and get flush with the top surface of the nut, the bands are probably worn out, and may be operational for a while, but plan on a rebuild.
Now (tractor off) push the the lever down toward the brake footplate. As it goes down, it should get harder to push when it is about 4" (or so) away from fully OFF. and be noticeably harder to push for the last inch, but not real hard. (this is the brake band tightening on the drum in the PTO unit.
Then pull it up and do the same feel.
The ON position should feel the same way.
The shaft should turn pretty free when the lever is half way, and not at all when in either ON, or OFF. (tractor shut off)
If it slips now, it needs a rebuild.

I am not sure what you mean by "half way up to engage"
You will put it in the center of travel (possibly bungy it there)while doing the adjustment as described. As Dave pointed out all slop must be removed from the linkage (not by adjustment, but by fixing the looseness. Be careful with the Woodruff Key at the lever to shaft it is not fixed by tightening the nut, it is fixed by using a Dremel tool to make the pocket and slot bigger for a new key. No slop, not bigger is ok. Very precise. A machine shop can do the work.
This post was edited by dwragon on 10/31/2021 at 06:50 pm.

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BarnyardEngineering

10-31-2021 18:41:53




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 Re: 460 pto ?'s in reply to dwragon, 10-31-2021 06:35:53  
To be fair, how, exactly, were we supposed to know about your service and experience...? You come across as very new and "green" and we can only go by what's in your posts. No way to read minds or do background checks.

That said, you can identify the earlier planetary (aka "band" type PTO if I'm not mistaken) by the PTO shaft protruding from a larger disc with 3 bolts in it that rotates visibly with the PTO shaft. The later "over center" clutch type has the PTO shaft protruding directly through the seal.

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dwragon

10-31-2021 18:29:33




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 Re: 460 pto ?'s in reply to dwragon, 10-31-2021 06:35:53  
Janicholson, thank you for being kind enough to share your information, I will look it up.



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dwragon

10-31-2021 18:28:04




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 Re: 460 pto ?'s in reply to dwragon, 10-31-2021 06:35:53  
I am neither new (age 53) or inexperienced, (Former GM college trained technician who owns about 25 tractors, loaders, crawlers, and a 175C, and some very rare Chevrolet muscle cars, including a personally built LT1/T56 Vega GT station Wagon and a 1st series 55 4 window 3100.), and scored 99 out of 100 on the military entrance aptitude tests. If I went out and bought a book for every machine I have or have had, I would need another building on my farm as a library. There is a big difference between taking an educated, aware action than being careless, (I learned that in C.O.'s.). When I rested the sole of my shoe on the PTO, the JD 606 rotary cutter was not attached to the tractor, but thanks for your suggestion on the books.
This post was edited by dwragon on 10/31/2021 at 06:35 pm.

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dwragon

10-31-2021 18:12:48




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 Re: 460 pto ?'s in reply to dwragon, 10-31-2021 06:35:53  
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I make the heavy presumption that it IS/WAS a utility/industrial with 3PH and PTO (or a pieced together conglomeration) added due to the Yellow base paint, (Repainted red, then green.) and the second owner history of it having a loader on it at one time. It has definate torque when the lever in in one position, and no torque in another. I will try the post info previously mentioned, but my main ? was about the rpm, I didn't realize that the RPM had to be so high on the engine to reach operating RPM for the PTO.

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tractorsam

10-31-2021 08:49:00




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 Re: 460 pto ?'s in reply to dwragon, 10-31-2021 06:35:53  
I cant answer all of your questions but I can help with some. Is your tractor a utility or Farmall variant? As to number 2 it is an independent pto so it operates regardless of the foot clutch. It should have a brake on the PTO so it should stop completely or engage completely. It sounds like yours is out of adjustment or needs to be rebuilt or both. It is geared to the engine so PTO speed is directly related to engine speed.

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Janicholson

10-31-2021 08:24:00




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 Re: 460 pto ?'s in reply to dwragon, 10-31-2021 06:35:53  
If it is a band type, it cannot have any slop in the linkage. it will never work correctly with any freeplay there. Look up Janicholson PTO adjustment for my working method. Jim



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DeltaRed

10-31-2021 08:20:41




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 Re: 460 pto ?'s in reply to dwragon, 10-31-2021 06:35:53  
Sounds like you have a 460 utility.Refer to the book for PTOadjustments.Order ASAP.Pto is engine speed dependent.It will be at 540 rpm at approx 7/8 wide open throttle.Shaft should NOT turn at off position.May simply be out of adjustment,or plates may be warped,or PTO brake worn out.Since you are very new/inexperiennced,PLEASE be careful.Accidents can happen faster than the blink of an eye.Order a full set of books ASAP.

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