NEW 560 head gasket leaks....

antifreeze down the side of the block & pushing up from a head bolt above the leak where the head meets the block. Currently draining the radiator
down as we speak & trying not to have a canary. The down side of that is, the coolant is coming out at a trickle now & there's most of a 2 1/2 gal
jug to fill. I fear the remainder ended up where it shouldn't be. In the cylinders, for example. None in the oil pan is a good sign. I had that
draining while the coolant was going in. No sign of that coming out from that hole yet. I gotta say, I don't need this nonsense right now. Also
don't need the expense of whatever else has been ruined by the leaky gasket. The money tree in the back yard is looking a little bare. Was looking
forward to making my 3rd cutting with it in a week or so. Wanted to fix the 806 this fall, because the rear main just sprung a leak amongst other
issues that need to be addressed. Guess I need to tear this tractor down again & quit grumpin' about it. Is there a quick & easy way to do this job
without pulling everything off again? Does anyone recommend a good company that makes head gaskets that isn't FELPRO? Was thinking about going
through Olson's. Don't recall if they have a different source for those or not. Been happy with their products so far, but I don't know if there
have been any changes in there suppliers recently.





Thanks,
Mike

check with case ih and see if you can get a victor gasket. i also come to the conclusion felpro is garbage.

ok and also... does that block have the centering dowel pins in it? i find it hard that the coolant will be leaking out the top of a bolt. is there any leaking out of the head gasket. what did you put on the head gasket? was it torqued in 3 stages? book sys 115 lbs. but i always go 120 on final torque after starting. just thinking why if it can be started and warmed up and retorqued . i have seen gaskets leak and then once warmed up they seal. curious as to the steps taken putting this head on.

The dowel pins are there. I did my torquing at 40, 80 & then 120 ft/lbs. Did not use any dope or compound on the gasket, as per usual when I do a head job. I'm not against it, just haven't had the need to.... yet. The thought was there to start it & see if it seals. After draining it down & ending up almost a gallon short, I'm glad I didn't. Have no idea where that coolant went. I fear it may have ended up in the cylinders. An even bigger concern was getting coolant into the injector pump. Don't know if it's possible to flood the cylinder to the point of filling it up to the injector & sending it down the line to the pump. Didn't want to find out the hard way. The plug is still off the oil pan with a clean bucket under it. No sign of coolant & just a few drops of oil. If you need any more particulars, just let me know.

Mike

Victor! That's the name I couldn't think of. If I don't have any luck with Olson's, I'll go that route. Do you know if the original gasket on the D282 was copper?

Mike

I called the local case IH dealer and they wanted $200 for that head gasket and then called All states Ag and they said $100 so I went that route. Not sure if it was the right choice.

I forgot what I paid for this piece of junk. Think it was $160. Wonder where All States sources theirs from.

Mike

If I were you I would pull valve cover and check the headbolts again with a different torque wrench. yours may be off or you missed a bolt or two. Also did you get head checked for cracks when it was off. When I worked at dealership there was a saying about heads on the engines. THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF HEADS FOR THEM. oNE IS CRACKED AND AND THE OTHER IS GONNA CRACK. Dont worry about getting antifreeze into fuel system, it almost impossible for that to happen. Good luck

remove the glow plugs and turn the engine over with a crank or wrench. that will not damage anything as the coolant will have time to escape. if none comes out the you can spin it over with the starter. no the coolant cannot get to injection pump. the injector nozzles will be closed on their seat.and the lines should have been primed before hooking them up. i had a wd6 years ago leak like a buggar when i was filling it. i started the tractor and it sealed its self. so now i always use high tack spray on the gaskets. these gaskets are really picky. with tractor running spray a soap mixture around the out side of gasket. any compression leakage shows up then these dam felpre gaskets leak right through the gasket , as you will see small bubbles coming out right from the middle of the gasket. they do not stand up to this engine. i dont remember how the victor gasket was made. it will not hurt a thing to start it with out coolant ,... but only for 30-40 seconds. then let it cool off and add hot water then start it and warm it up. lots of times i will just use hot water on first starts as you know antifreeze will always leak before water. if it was mine i would be doing a little experimenting before tearing it dowm. get some pictures of those leaks and try for warranty on that gasket. waas that head resurfaced? and was block checked and clean and bolt threads? and the bolts lubed with copper coat or never sieze?

let me get this straight! what is exactly leaking? is it coming from the injector bolts or the head bolts as i am having a hard time comprehending head bolts, but yes it can leak from the injector bolts as those bolts will screw into the water jacket if you use too long of bolts. just from memory i think they are 2 1/4" and not common. if you put in 2 1/2 " your in trouble.

Well if that is a FEl Pro head gskt it does not surprise me one bit . First off did you chase the block threads with a BOTTOMING TAP????? , next did you chase the head bolt threads ??????? . when was the last time you had your torque wrench calibrated ????? . Was the deck of the block FLAT ???? Did you check it. Did you check the head bolts for stretching , did the head bolt bottom out ??? Did you clean and DRY the head bolt holes in the block . Did you lightly lube the head bolts or run them in dry??? . I always use copper coat and i run a bottoming tap in all holes and try for that one extra thread at the bottom . One never knows just how much has been shaved off that head as in the OLD DAYS when we machined a head WE would stamp how much we took off so the next guy had and idea how much was milled off . Last one that still did that was a close friend of mine but like most of my old friends he is now gone . I stopped usen FEL PRO gskt.of any kind years ago as i had nothing but problems with there head gskt.'s and when i order from my jobber supply house i get VICTOR and here again you MUST specified OGR eq. as there are two lines . When working on someone elses dime you want the job to leave and not come back on your dime . Only costs a buck more to go first class .

I did chase the threads with a bottoming tap, haven't had my torque wrench calibrated in a while, don't know where to go for that. The Snap On guy used to do it for me, but he retired a few years back. I did check the block & the head for flatness with a machinists straight edge, both faces were fine. Eyeballed the bolt threads for stretching, but have no idea how long they should be as there's no spec on them that I can find. The bolts did not feel like they bottomed out & I don't recall what it is you can use to dab on the ends of the bolts to see if they touched bottom. Paris green comes to mind but I don't think that's it. The threads were blown out & wiped down as best I could with an angled pick & several small squares of blue shop towel. I used oil, but it was Marvel mystery oil. I thought something thin was required for that, so that's what I had on hand. Did not use any gasket sealant. I haven't before & have had no issues. This leaky one is a first for me.

Mike

The bolts are original, so they should be the right length. The one that's leaking is between cyl's 3 & 4. The head gasket leaks directly below that. I do suppose the bolt could be stretched. I'll have to measure it when I get it out.

Mike

What does the book say for head bolt torque? I'm thinking 90 but could be wrong. Im afraid to torque them 1/2" bolts over 100 or snap and start over.

He has the correct torque ,book spec is 115 lbs. Sometimes where people say things are clean and also flat I have seen that is not the case. I have found out the only time dry assembly works is at the factory. And also if the bolt is stretched u will also feel it when torquing. Felpro gaskets are poor and need all the help they can get.

The bolt heads get a scratch mark with welders chalk to ensure I don't miss any. My torque wrench indeed may be off. Might have to invest in another one.

Mike

I had a run on leaky head gskt.'s , i was flooded with valve jobs on 263's and 291 due to people usen the wrong engine oil . where i was getting my parts from started selling Fel Pro and they were shipping head sets Vary first head i put on leaked even with copper coat on the dist . side from one end to the other . All bolts were pulled down to 95 Ft.lbs as per what a gasser takes . I knew my torque wrench was on as it had just come back from Snap on . I knew the head was flat and had a good finish as i had just done the head myself on our old head grinder and that old sucker would hold 3 tenths of a thou on a 6 -71 head . Block was a thou and a half out of being perfect . Like you i figured once warmed to operating temp and pulled back down all would be well -------NOT . So we upped the pull down to 105 and still leaky leaky . I called Fel Pro. Now ya'll know i can be grouchy but i tried to be NICE and the yahoo in there tech dept tried to tell me i did not know how to torque a head down and with that i came unglued on him and i also asked him just how many engines he has built and how many winners , asked him if he had ever worked on any cammers or blowen hemi's and i get well i BUILD CHEVE small blocks . H did not like my come back that any monkey with a bag of peanuts can build a Cheve with parts from Summit . . I end up pulling them down to the diesel specs . I called my jobber and complained and Ann told me well i can get the victor and it comes in two levels one is the cheaper one and one is OEM but it is MORE . Told her that i don't care as long as it seals on the first round and does not leak and i waist a day and a half on a five hour job .

I did not get a chance to get back to the 560 today. Mom had a few dr appointments I had to take her to & then it rained, so I couldn't move stuff out of the garage to get things done. What's the high tack spray you mentioned? Sounds like it might be a handy thing to use. I'll pull the glow plugs tomorrow & see what comes out. Still have to put fuel in the tank & prime the system. Then I'll see if it starts. If it does. I'll run it for the 30-40 seconds & add hot water. If there aren't any major issues, I'll spray it with the soap mixture & see what happens. For the details of what I did when I had the head off & the prep work before reassembly, please see my post to TV above. It was not resurfaced. Had hoped, after checking it with the straight edge, that it didn't need it. Guess we shall see what happens after some run time & testing.

Mike

No one mentioned sleeve flange height or do you have later block with heavy press sleeves where head gasket seals on block and not on the sleeve flange.

You don't want that flange to be more than .002 difference between cylinders and that is pushing it. I don't even want the flange to be more than .002 over block period. Also, some engines you find flange height to be higher on one side of block than the other side. Then you really have problems.

Original head gasket was changed six times in the first couple years of production. R6 or R96, don't remember. I also always felt that added material on the precup side was stupid as it contributes to uneven compression of the head gasket. Maybe they don't even have that anymore, I don't know. Been a long time since I put a head gasket in a D-282. I am sure they have been changed several more times with all the different co's making the gasket.

As for sealer that depends on the material of the gasket. Original gaskets were aluminum coated and some times I sprayed more aluminum paint on them. Never convinced me one way or another that it helped.

Where the block erodes around the coolant ports I often dabbed those areas with sealer and between the cylinders sometimes depending on how they looked.

If the block on mine is original.... & it's believed to be, than it's a late '62. Not sure when the heavy pressed sleeves were used. Forgot to check the flange height when the head was off. Don't recall how far they're supposed to stick up. Is it .003"?

Were the original gaskets aluminum coated copper?

Mike

What kind of head grinder was at the shop? I had passed up on a Peterson a few years ago & am beginning to kick myself for it. Currently waiting for Olson's to call me back tomorrow with their findings on what material they use for the gasket. Said they were quite busy this year & were a bit backlogged.

Hehehehe! A monkey with a bag of peanuts may be over qualified to build up a Chev small block with Summit parts.

Mike

Wynonia (sp) , Easy set up no fancy messing around just four feeler gauges set at each corner under the head and clamp it down push the button and flip a lever adjust till it touches set your reference and start your cut. on a fresh dressed stone . Could do up to a 6-71 head oh yea ya had to set your stops so it would go back and forth and you had to adjust your cut . The only down side was you had to use a mirror to look at your work as the head faced down and the stone up . You could angle cut just by usen thicker feeler gauges under the one side .

Oh, a Winona. I had to look those up. Quite fancy. The one I was looking at was just a table with a machined surface & a grinder wheel sticking up in the middle. Don't know how accurate it would be. The new Winona looks like a CNC machine. Probably out of my price range. Lol!

Mike

The heavy press sleeve came along later. The gaskets were not copper. I don't know just how you would describe the material but was all aluminum colored. They would stick and be difficult to get off sometimes.

I believe the best way to seal them up is to shave the block just enough to straighten it out, get the pits out and level those sleeve flanges . If it takes much to get pits out you would need to check piston and valve interference.

I am sure you don't intend to go to that length on a head gasket repair, just throwing that out there. The old Allis Chalmers Diesels, they used to mill block after installing sleeves as routine repair. Of course they cracked the block between the sleeves so any repair there had to be milled at any rate.