574 brake bleeding

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 21, 2020

Hi. My name is Mike. Bought a 574. Right brake works great. Left brake only works if you pump it up. Also sounds like a loud pop in the left side brake housing as you are driving along. Maybe every 2 or 3 tire revolutions
Have tired to bleed a hundred times and just keep getting air. Also steering is not working. Have pulled flow divider out. Didn't look bad at all but Emory clothed it up and put it back. Fluid level is good and changed the filter. Any help?

caterpillar guy · Jul 22, 2020

Do you have any weights on the rear wheels if so check they are not loose. That could be your noise. As for the bleeding it works like any other brake open push pedal then tighten and let up. Do you get any oil at all when bleeding or just air? It is possible if just air that you could have a plugged line or bad leak at the pedal cylinder. I know on our 574 dad did a change to that little bulb deal down in there by the pedals under the dash. Something about it would not keep from letting air get into the brake pedal cylinders. Don't remember just what went on there. His would bleed and work for a day or 2 then need bleeding again like that. I'm thinking he took that third cylinder and lines out of there. Don't get me to lying though.

JimB2 · Jul 22, 2020

Hi Mike, Cat guy, is correct on the brakes.
Re popping noise on left axle, again as Cat guy says make sure all the hub, rim and if wheel weights the nuts are all tight, spec is about 200 ft/lbs torque.
Also inspect at the between the out hub and the axle housing for any signs of grease or metal fragments.
Check left axle outer bearing for source of noise, my brother just had the same problem on his CIH 495 (same rear end as 574) and we changed the left outer axle bearing last week.
If noise is still present block the other wheels and jack the left wheel up, put trans in neutral and see if you can rotate the left wheel and determine if there is any spot that binds, next with a long bar
and a pry point try prying up on the the left wheel and see if there is any movement of the axle hub, if the tire are loaded with fluid they will weight about 1000 lbs, next hold the right brake and start
tractor and put in gear and have the left wheel turn and listen for the popping noise.

Below is a link to the European manuals for the IH 74 series tractors, Section Group 8 has the rear axles and brakes, if your 574 is a Louisville, KY, USA crate unit the electrics, front axle and power
steering could be different than the European model, the Canadian model is very similar to European model.
Manual 674

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 22, 2020

(quoted from post at 04:36:00 07/22/20) Do you have any weights on the rear wheels if so check they are not loose. That could be your noise. As for the bleeding it works like any other brake open push pedal then tighten and let up. Do you get any oil at all when bleeding or just air? It is possible if just air that you could have a plugged line or bad leak at the pedal cylinder. I know on our 574 dad did a change to that little bulb deal down in there by the pedals under the dash. Something about it would not keep from letting air get into the brake pedal cylinders. Don't remember just what went on there. His would bleed and work for a day or 2 then need bleeding again like that. I'm thinking he took that third cylinder and lines out of there. Don't get me to lying though.

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 22, 2020

I do get fluid. Clears up to fluid only and I think cool. I got this. And brake may work 1 or 2 times. Then it goes to floor. Open bleeder then air again. I have done this numerous times. You don't think the popping noise could be the brakes so worn something has come loose inside the housing?

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 22, 2020

thanks. I will check on the bearings by doing all the things you mentioned. I do not have wheel weights. I don't know but I am sure tires are filled with fluid

MARK ROBKE · Jul 22, 2020

Does your hydraulics work -the 3pt and the remote(s)? If they do, did you try
deadheading the remote for a moment? That might help your steering. If not maybe you
have a pump issue or a problem with the MCV. I have had a couple that after changing
the fluid and filter, the steering did not work until I reved the engine and kept
turning the wheel and trying to deadhead the remote.
Your brake master cylinder reservoirs are fed by the return from the hydraulic oil
cooler lines. There is a Y or a diverter in the return line near the battery box
that diverts oil into the reservoir or master cylinders. Later models have
reservoirs for sure- I can't remember about the 574. The right hand master cylinder
feeds the left brake and vice versa. If you never get oil out of the brake bleeder,
I would make sure you are getting oil to the master cylinder. Also your brake piston
o rings in the the axle could be blown out. This would possibly keep you from seeing
any oil-only air. If you take off the supply/application line off the side of the
housing, and can apply air pressure to the fitting, it should hold pressure.(And
apply the brake.) The left line is harder than the right to get off and on compared
to the right. If it does not hold any pressure, then I would suspect the brake
piston o rings-cheap on parts, but lots of labor. If your outer bearing is bad-you
need to pull the axle anyway. Check these things and let us know. Mark.

MARK ROBKE · Jul 22, 2020

Most likely the outer bearing, but check it over he said. See my other post above.
Mark.

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 22, 2020

(quoted from post at 15:09:27 07/22/20) Most likely the outer bearing, but check it over he said. See my other post above.
Mark.

thank you guys so much. I appreciate all the help. I do get oil part of the time. The air clears up. Fluid only and I think I have it. Brakes work 1 or 2 times then it goes to floor. Open up again and air. Bleed it. Get fluid then same story all over. Remote works great. PTO works great. 3pt lifts and is very strong but lifts by the draft control. The raise and lower lever does nothing. Gonna go into that as soon as I get brakes and steering. I have no steering either. I already removed and sanded the flow divider tho I don't think it was sticking.

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 22, 2020

(quoted from post at 15:09:27 07/22/20) Most likely the outer bearing, but check it over he said. See my other post above.
Mark.

how do I dead head the remote?

used red MN · Jul 22, 2020

Dead head, that just means hold the remote lever in the raise or lower position with either no hoses or cylinder
plugged, or a cylinder is connected but is at the end of the stroke of the direction you are applying pressure to.
In other words forcing the hydraulic pump to bypass the pressure relief valve.

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 22, 2020

(quoted from post at 19:42:21 07/22/20) Dead head, that just means hold the remote lever in the raise or lower position with either no hoses or cylinder
plugged, or a cylinder is connected but is at the end of the stroke of the direction you are applying pressure to.
In other words forcing the hydraulic pump to bypass the pressure relief valve.

I got you. That's what I thought. But wasn't sure. I did that.

JimB2 · Jul 23, 2020

Hi, you have to fix Power steering hydraulic flow as that will cause a problem with the oil cooler hydraulic oil flow not supplying sufficient oil to the brakes.

See attached photos below of IH 74 Series hydraulic flow. Your 574 doesn't have the Fwd/Rev as shown on one photo but that is the path to the oil cooler.
Also read the Service Manual that I posted a link to, there is a complete section on hydraulic testing/trouble shooting, that could help with the 3pt lift lever not working.

caterpillar guy · Jul 23, 2020

This is kind of a longer shot but if the top cover has been removed and they tried to reuse those Teflon rings under it those could be leaking. There are 3 of them in there or if they tried to use just regular o-rings. They could leak to the outside or the inside. They would allow the pressure to leak of though would not really expect air in it each time you have to bleed it.

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 23, 2020

(quoted from post at 06:44:15 07/23/20) This is kind of a longer shot but if the top cover has been removed and they tried to reuse those Teflon rings under it those could be leaking. There are 3 of them in there or if they tried to use just regular o-rings. They could leak to the outside or the inside. They would allow the pressure to leak of though would not really expect air in it each time you have to bleed it.

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 23, 2020

so it appears to me the steering is the first issue to tackle. It appears the power steering hand pump is being starved for fluid. I pull the supply line off the mcv valve and there is fluid coming out but doesn't seem near enough to be 3 gallons per minute. How can I check that? With some kind of pressure gauge? I do not have a Flow Rater and sure don't want to pay $900 for one.

JimB2 · Jul 24, 2020

Hi Mike, if you have just a pressure gauge, I would check the pressure at one of the remote hydraulic outlets, should be 2250 to 2500 PSI at 1500 RPM and you should hear the hydraulic relieve valve buzz.
This will give a good indication if it is a weak pump and the relief valve is working.
Re-check the proper function of the priority valve, as IIRC when valve is stuck on the bottom, there is no PS, no PTO but 3pt and remotes work, if stuck at the top no 3pt and no remotes but PS and PTO work.
Also check the PTO clutch pressure at the "T" behind the filter, should be 200 to 250 PSI, I know on the newer 95 Series tractors to test the PTO clutch pressure requires a #4 JIC adapter but not sure about
your older 74 Series tractor. Also check the pressure out of the MCV valve for the oil cooler line should be 80 to 120 PSI or pull the oil cooler regulator valve and check for broken springs.

Re MCV priority valve, I remember a few years ago that a retired IH Mechanic said that IH had a replacement kit for the old style priority valve that contained a new valve that was inside a polished sleeve.
I tried checking the caseih parts web site but it is in transition to a new web site and not all part numbers are there.

BE CAREFUL with hot high pressure hydraulic oil, wear protective eye ware and clothing.

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 24, 2020

(quoted from post at 05:53:14 07/23/20) Hi, you have to fix Power steering hydraulic flow as that will cause a problem with the oil cooler hydraulic oil flow not supplying sufficient oil to the brakes.

See attached photos below of IH 74 Series hydraulic flow. Your 574 doesn't have the Fwd/Rev as shown on one photo but that is the path to the oil cooler.
Also read the Service Manual that I posted a link to, there is a complete section on hydraulic testing/trouble shooting, that could help with the 3pt lift lever not working.

<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto51209.jpg">

<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto51210.jpg">

<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto51211.jpg">

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 24, 2020

(reply to post at 05:53:51 07/24/20)

So should I measure the hydraulic fluid cold on level ground or after running? Currently the fluid is about half an inch above the maximum line on the dip stick cold. Once warm it shows just barely on the stick. When I look in the filler hole the fluid level is below the 3pt gears that you can see thru that hole. Seems low to me. I wonder if the dip stick is even the correct one. I have read you can over fill by 5 gallons.

JimB2 · Jul 25, 2020

Hi Mike,

See photo below from the IH Operator's Manual, does not cause damage if you over fill especially if you have a loader with only single acting boom cylinders.

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 25, 2020

(quoted from post at 04:36:00 07/22/20) Do you have any weights on the rear wheels if so check they are not loose. That could be your noise. As for the bleeding it works like any other brake open push pedal then tighten and let up. Do you get any oil at all when bleeding or just air? It is possible if just air that you could have a plugged line or bad leak at the pedal cylinder. I know on our 574 dad did a change to that little bulb deal down in there by the pedals under the dash. Something about it would not keep from letting air get into the brake pedal cylinders. Don't remember just what went on there. His would bleed and work for a day or 2 then need bleeding again like that. I'm thinking he took that third cylinder and lines out of there. Don't get me to lying though.

Well I still haven't figured out my brakes and steering but the popping that I was sure was a bearing or axle turns out it was 3 of the 6 bolts that hold the center to the rim was loose.

JimB2 · Jul 25, 2020

That is good news.

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 26, 2020

(quoted from post at 18:04:12 07/25/20) That is good news.

Yes sir it is.

MRDhorsecountry · Jul 30, 2020

(quoted from post at 18:04:12 07/25/20) That is good news.

Finally got the brakes to bleed. Steering works great for 30 minutes then from then to another 30 minutes get a little harder then no power steering at all. It's like once the oil gets hot steering is gone. Let it cool off overnight and it's fine for 30 minutes. Does that help diagnose the issue?

ben brown · Jul 31, 2020

(quoted from post at 15:06:12 07/22/20) Does your hydraulics work -the 3pt and the remote(s)? If they do, did you try
deadheading the remote for a moment? That might help your steering. If not maybe you
have a pump issue or a problem with the MCV. I have had a couple that after changing
the fluid and filter, the steering did not work until I reved the engine and kept
turning the wheel and trying to deadhead the remote.
Your brake master cylinder reservoirs are fed by the return from the hydraulic oil
cooler lines. There is a Y or a diverter in the return line near the battery box
that diverts oil into the reservoir or master cylinders. Later models have
reservoirs for sure- I can't remember about the 574. The right hand master cylinder
feeds the left brake and vice versa. If you never get oil out of the brake bleeder,
I would make sure you are getting oil to the master cylinder. Also your brake piston
o rings in the the axle could be blown out. This would possibly keep you from seeing
any oil-only air. If you take off the supply/application line off the side of the
housing, and can apply air pressure to the fitting, it should hold pressure.(And
apply the brake.) The left line is harder than the right to get off and on compared
to the right. If it does not hold any pressure, then I would suspect the brake
piston o rings-cheap on parts, but lots of labor. If your outer bearing is bad-you
need to pull the axle anyway. Check these things and let us know. Mark.

in the line that mark is talking about at the end before going into master cly the is a valve that restrict the oil flow if it plug you wont get oil to the master cly also if you well get you a clear line that well fit on the bleed screw you can pump oil back in to the hyd fill tell you see no air. i get the line at lowes if you bleed it this way you also need the engine running so you keep oil in the master cly

MRDhorsecountry · Sep 16, 2020

(quoted from post at 05:53:51 07/24/20) Hi Mike, if you have just a pressure gauge, I would check the pressure at one of the remote hydraulic outlets, should be 2250 to 2500 PSI at 1500 RPM and you should hear the hydraulic relieve valve buzz.
This will give a good indication if it is a weak pump and the relief valve is working.
Re-check the proper function of the priority valve, as IIRC when valve is stuck on the bottom, there is no PS, no PTO but 3pt and remotes work, if stuck at the top no 3pt and no remotes but PS and PTO work.
Also check the PTO clutch pressure at the "T" behind the filter, should be 200 to 250 PSI, I know on the newer 95 Series tractors to test the PTO clutch pressure requires a #4 JIC adapter but not sure about
your older 74 Series tractor. Also check the pressure out of the MCV valve for the oil cooler line should be 80 to 120 PSI or pull the oil cooler regulator valve and check for broken springs.

Re MCV priority valve, I remember a few years ago that a retired IH Mechanic said that IH had a replacement kit for the old style priority valve that contained a new valve that was inside a polished sleeve.
I tried checking the caseih parts web site but it is in transition to a new web site and not all part numbers are there.

BE CAREFUL with hot high pressure hydraulic oil, wear protective eye ware and clothing.

MRDhorsecountry · Sep 16, 2020

just wanted everyone to know I found the new upgraded priority valve and that fixed all my issues.

574 brake bleeding

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