1963 IH 3414 loader pump expertise needed

Tom3414

New User
Once again, I have hydraulic issues with my IH industrial 3414. I am humbly requesting advice from all of you experts out there who may have pulled a front pump on one because of FEL issues.

Tractor was doing some work dragging a blade around when I heard a buzzing/rattling mechanical-type noise coming from the engine, over the regular noise of the diesel engine. When I reduced the RPM the noise abated somewhat but didn't go away.
I grounded the front end loader bucket, and shut it off. I walked around, looking for anything amiss. No blown lines, no puddles of oil or water...no odd root stuck in the fan, nothing. Hyd reservoir was a little low, but still had enough fluid in it. I started it back up...still made the noise, but the loader lift and bucket curl cylinders were now non-responsive, no movement at all.
I looked at the front of the engine, and the pump drive shaft was still turning, the belts were still intact and turning. The noise is loudest at the front of the engine, to my ear, it seems about where the water pump is. I would have thought that if the pump crapped itself the noise would be there, forward of the radiator but it doesn't really sound that way. (The power steering and 3pt lift are fine, so the dual pump is still working, and having both lift and curl cylinders go out at once just seems like a pump gone bad to me).
My first instinct is to just pull the pump and replace it. But, knowing this machine it's probably not that simple, so I could use any advice about what else to check, and any diagnostic methods to keep me from replacing a functioning pump if it might be something else.
Thanks for your help
 
Just keep in mind that these aren't farm tractors, even though they share some common components with farm tractors. There are some parts you simply can't get because they are specific to the industrial version, and Komatsu does not support these old machines.

I believe on the industrial version that the loader is powered by a pump that drives directly from the engine crankshaft. That's about the extent of my knowledge.

There just isn't a universal nose-to-problem correlation chart out there, so the noise could be related or it could not be.

Did you ever try to raise the loader after the noise started? Lowering the loader requires no pressure.

On a normal tractor the next thing would be to pressure test and flow rate the system, or at least pressure test it.
 
not sure yet, I will have to look at it when I remove the pump. I was just trying to think if there was anything else I should do before I start pulling
things apart.
 
If I don't have a pressure gauge for the hyd line, would just putting the end of the pressure line into a bucket and running the engine briefly show if the pump is moving fluid or is that going to dump all the reservoir super quick?
 
(quoted from post at 18:11:26 09/10/20)
Is the pump coupler slipping?
With the motor off, I can rotate the pump drive shaft by hand. The belt pulley it comes out of is bolted to the crank, so it doesn't move, but the shaft rotates inside it freely, and the coupler feels like it is still intact and turning with the shaft. Do you happen to know if the crank-end bell pulley has some kind of clutch in it to drive that pump shaft? Or should the driveshaft and pulley be locked together all the time?
 
(quoted from post at 05:09:35 09/14/20)
(quoted from post at 18:11:26 09/10/20)
Is the pump coupler slipping?

If you have a pump drive shaft coming out of the center of the crankshaft dampener/belt pulley it should be locked to the pulley and not turn if the engine is not turning. If you can turn the shaft with the engine stopped, the engine won't turn the pump when it is running. If it had a disconnect or clutch you would see it. Sounds like the connection in the pulley or on the shaft has failed.

As for sticking a hose in a bucket and running it. That will only tell you oil is being moved, nothing about pump condition. That is what flow and pressure checks do. They load the pump so you can see what it is doing when it is working.
 
mvphoto61841.jpg


On mine, looking at the attached photo, the splines on shaft 17 were almost gone where they engage part 18. Part 18 bolts to the pulley. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a direct replacement as the spline pattern isn't "off the shelf". The good part is that the pump splines are pretty standard. In my case I was able to find a part from a Deere to replace part 18 (had to drill/tap new holes in the pulley) shorten up a new shaft, and buy a new coupler (part 16).

It wasn't too difficult. The only hard part was having a friend with a lathe shorten the new shaft.
 
(quoted from post at 21:05:10 09/14/20)
mvphoto61841.jpg


On mine, looking at the attached photo, the splines on shaft 17 were almost gone where they engage part 18. Part 18 bolts to the pulley. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a direct replacement as the spline pattern isn't "off the shelf". The good part is that the pump splines are pretty standard. In my case I was able to find a part from a Deere to replace part 18 (had to drill/tap new holes in the pulley) shorten up a new shaft, and buy a new coupler (part 16).

It wasn't too difficult. The only hard part was having a friend with a lathe shorten the new shaft.


mvphoto61980.jpg


mvphoto61981.jpg


That is certainly what it sounds like and that is the right schematic. Did you ever figure out if the pump was bad on yours or was it just wear over time that ate the splines?
 
The pump was fine. Once the machine was rebuilt it tested out to full spec'd pressure. It looked like there was slop in the splines, and over 50 years it simply wore them away.

If you give me your email address, I can send you some photos of the fix.
 
(quoted from post at 14:48:37 09/16/20) The pump was fine. Once the machine was rebuilt it tested out to full spec'd pressure. It looked like there was slop in the splines, and over 50 years it simply wore them away.

If you give me your email address, I can send you some photos of the fix.

I sounds like that front pump is supposed to be removed every 1000 hours of use when the reservoir is drained, and the shaft splines greased. I'm guessing that didn't happen on this unit. :roll: Anyhoo, looks like your PM is disabled, so if you wouldn't mind sending some pics that would be great. [email protected]

btw, I just plugged in the part number for that shaft into the ol' interwebs and I got a hit as that exact number, for a a 6 spline shaft but listed as a Komatsu part! (SHAFT6SPLINE - Komatsu Part No. 378871R1) weird
 

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