Farmall Countershaft/hydraulics

rmauseth

New User
Hello, new to the site but have learned a lot in the past.
I have a 49 H that has been sitting for a while. Got it fired up but couldn t get the loader to lift. After dropping the pump, reinstalling, I had a hard time getting the coupler between the countershaft and pump back on. It wasn t very smooth coming out either. I cleaned that up and got it spinning. The countershaft spins very slowly when not connected to the belly pump. It doesn t spin at all when connected to the belly pump.

Anyone know what would cause the counter shaft to not have much power? Is this something I can look into from that bottom housing or will I need to pull the cover off the transmission?

Any insight would be great.
 
The coupler drive that sticks out of the countershaft is threaded into the shaft. If those threads are stripped, it would
fail to turn the actual coupling. I assume the tractor drives correctly. If the threads are toast, removing the drive from
the couplers to access that drive on the countershaft is necessary. (there is gear oil in the trans that will run out, a lot
of it, like 6 gallons) I would turn it CCW to see if it comes out (put t in high gear to remove the drive coupling. If it
turns but does not come out, you can pull on it removing the bearing retainer might let you see inside a little.
If it is stripped, it could be necessary to replace the countershaft, and the drive coupling! If stripped and not leaking,
you cold put a live pump on the engine (pretty involved). I can't imagine a good way to fix the threaded connection other
than replacement. The constant mesh gear that drives the countershaft from the transmission input shaft must be operational
if the tractor drives normally. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 09:01:10 04/28/20) The coupler drive that sticks out of the countershaft is threaded into the shaft. If those threads are stripped, it would
fail to turn the actual coupling. I assume the tractor drives correctly. If the threads are toast, removing the drive from
the couplers to access that drive on the countershaft is necessary. (there is gear oil in the trans that will run out, a lot
of it, like 6 gallons) I would turn it CCW to see if it comes out (put t in high gear to remove the drive coupling. If it
turns but does not come out, you can pull on it removing the bearing retainer might let you see inside a little.
If it is stripped, it could be necessary to replace the countershaft, and the drive coupling! If stripped and not leaking,
you cold put a live pump on the engine (pretty involved). I can't imagine a good way to fix the threaded connection other
than replacement. The constant mesh gear that drives the countershaft from the transmission input shaft must be operational
if the tractor drives normally. Jim

Thanks Jim, I will look into the threads on the coupler/shaft tonight.
I have intentions of going to a live hydraulic system but I was unsure if whatever this issue is with my counter shaft is a indicator of other issues in my transmission? Or hopefully I just have those threads messed up (which I know isn t great either).

And yes, the tractor drives and functions as it should other than the belly pump/counter shaft
 
The lower shaft will turn SLOWER then the engine as it is a gear reduction and NOT a direct drive . NOW off the top of my little bald head i don't know the tooth count on the trans input or the constant mesh gear but at full throttle you will only be turning around 540 RPM same as the PTO and at idle a 70 or less with out getting into the number crunching .
 
(quoted from post at 09:49:37 04/28/20) The lower shaft will turn SLOWER then the engine as it is a gear reduction and NOT a direct drive . NOW off the top of my little bald head i don't know the tooth count on the trans input or the constant mesh gear but at full throttle you will only be turning around 540 RPM same as the PTO and at idle a 70 or less with out getting into the number crunching .


What I have now (with out the countershaft hooked to pump) is barely nothing at idle. I can grab the coupler and it stops without much pressure at all. Cable is my hold it with my pinky.
 
(quoted from post at 09:49:37 04/28/20) The lower shaft will turn SLOWER then the engine as it is a gear reduction and NOT a direct drive . NOW off the top of my little bald head i don't know the tooth count on the trans input or the constant mesh gear but at full throttle you will only be turning around 540 RPM same as the PTO and at idle a 70 or less with out getting into the number crunching .


I am going to get a parts break down tomorrow but curious if the clutch would have anything to do with this counter shaft not fully engaging? Clutch pressed in it stops the shaft. Clutch out it moves but not what it should be. I know I need to rebuild the clutch. it has been on the Frits for a while. Any though on that idea? Also. That countershaft coupler spins freely both directions and I can t get it to catch in any way to try and see if I can spin it off?
 
There is no way for finger pressure to turn the drive coupling. it is (if good) directly threaded into the countershaft.
cvphoto3141.jpg
Here is the countershaft and nut (Drive coupling) threaded on it. As you can see,
there is a threaded end (right side of image) that could be broken off. Remove the three bolts to look inside. Beware of
oil!! Jim

cvphoto3142.jpg
 
Hello rm, welcome to YT! Maybe you found it, on my phone Jim?s link didn?t take me direct to the diagram. I have no idea of your mechanical knowledge, but in the linked parts page gear 63 and 40 are always in mesh. Gear 40 is always driven when the clutch is engaged, not pushed down. All gears on the counter shaft including 63 are keyed to the counter shaft. So if the counter shaft is slowing down you would hear some kind of grinding as the key or gears were stripping. But you have proven that is not the case because you said the tractor drives normally which I take to mean in any chosen gear. Unless you only drive it in 5th gear which is unlikely, when using any other gear the power flow is through gears on the counter shaft.
Direct link to trans diagram
 
Jim - thanks for the picture and link. I was not aware of this information online. That and the picture helps a lot to see what is behind that countershaft nut. I will take that housing off this week and see whatever I can. I know after last night that the nut spins freely both ways and does not tighten or loosen, no matter what gear I am in or clutch in/out. I'm leaning toward that being the culprit.

used red MN - thanks for the direct link. it was difficult to get to where I needed to be on my phone but I found it. The browser on a computer makes it much easier though. Now knowing that the 63 gear and 40 are always meshed (in my head) leans me more toward the counter shaft nut being the issue as I do not have any unusual grinding. I can't feel any either when I hold the shaft nut while it is running.

John M - the PTO and belt pulley run as they should.

Do any of you believe that my clutch needing rebuilt would have anything to do with the countershaft not engaging?
 
It is not the issue. The transmission gears all turn almost all the time (except reverse idler) because they are all either
meshed with others (in that gear) or keyed to one of the three shafts. Because of this, if in neutral-engine off-clutch with
your foot off of it, the countershaft is hooked to the input shaft, hooked to the clutch shaft, hooked to the clutch hooked
to the flywheel, hooked to the engine. Your pinkey will not turn the engine from that "nut". Jim
 
You have a problem of some sort at the nut. Since you mentioned you had a hard time with the coupling, Id suspect the nut MAY have
spun off somehow, and most likely the threads are toast on the end of both the shaft and nut. Id suspect a prior "repair" wasnt
done correctly, and now youre the one who has to fix it right. I agree with Jim, youre going to have to pull that housing off and
have a look.
 
..... Do any of you believe that my clutch needing rebuilt would have anything to do with the countershaft not
engaging?.... If the tractor moves under it own power the clutch is not the culprit at least in immediate terms. If
you can drive the tractor in any gear 1-4 step on a brake and load the engine the clutch is not the issue;
assuming the brakes are in working order. It sounds to me like the threads on the pump drive bolt or in the
counter shaft or both are your issue.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top