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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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656 gas to diesel swap

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Harry in Ky

04-12-2020 13:22:38




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I've just been invited to attempt to replace a bad gas engine for a diesel in a Farmall 656. I haven't committed to it yet, and probably won't until I find out something about the problems, pitfalls, and a few sordid details that might make it more difficult than just the nuts and bolts.
The replacement engine has yet to be acquired. Anything other than a D282 from another tractor that can be used? I'm not familiar enough with older Internationals to know what might mate with what so I thought this might be a good place to look for input. I expect it's been done more than once and that some out there might be willing to share some knowledge/experiences with me.

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ih560

04-14-2020 05:14:23




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 13:22:38  
I am in central Ky too.
The combine starter mounts from the front and is opposite rotation if I recall correctly. I swapped the engine out of a cotton picker into a tractor and it was the same way.



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Harry in Ky

04-13-2020 17:55:42




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 13:22:38  
I didn't mean to ignore the location question. We're in Central Kentucky, near Lexington. Bluegrass area.



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Harry in Ky

04-13-2020 17:48:51




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 13:22:38  
Any chance the starter(provided it's there) on the 301 would work? I hope to contact the seller tomorrow for more details.



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ih560

04-13-2020 16:35:18




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 13:22:38  
If I remember right the clutch and the pressure plate are the same. I would probably freshen them up with I had it apart.
I think the radiator will work, but I don't recall 100%. I've had the connection on the radiator moved when swapping a gas out for a diesel, but I think those two engines will be in the same location. You should be able to swap the fan from the current engine, to the 301, I think it will fit too. The water pump is the same from the gas to the diesel.

There were two different front covers on that series of engine. One fasted down to the top of the frame rail and the other on the inside of the frame rail. I think either will work, worst case you may need to drill a hole in the top of the frame rail.
The starter on the diesel is bigger for the diesel and it may interfere with the gas tank, I don't really remember. You may be able to "clearance it" if needed.

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Harry in Ky

04-13-2020 15:32:44




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 13:22:38  
Yes, I saw the bit about the pump problem, but that doesn't disqualify the deal. The back plate, starter, and flywheel, those for sure will need to be addressed. The parts book shows a clutch/pressure plate with no distinction gas or diesel. Maybe it's the same part? Also the radiator is a different part number. Anyone know what the difference there would be?
How about up front? The photo in the ad shows a pretty good sized fan and radiator. Neither looks like it would work in this application. Front motor mounting? Might this engine be one that requires a number of parts swapped out in order to fit and mate up?

Not having seen either the tractor or the engine first hand I'm still trying to wrap my head around what I MIGHT have to deal with let alone what I KNOW I have to deal with.

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ih560

04-13-2020 14:58:45




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 13:22:38  
You would need to find a diesel flywheel and starter, If I remember right, the backplate off of the gas will fit the diesel, but I could be wrong.
It sounds like that one needs an injection pump or at least that one rebuilt, probably cost you a few hundred, depending on what is wrong with it.
Where in KY are you located?



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Harry in Ky

04-13-2020 12:07:19




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 13:22:38  
Believe it not I just located a D301 on C/L just a few hours drive from here. Trying to contact them for more details now.
Link

So you think one of these would make a likely candidate for a transplant?



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Harry in Ky

04-13-2020 11:21:21




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 13:22:38  
Would the 301 combine engine require much more than the rear plate change (and probably flywheel) in order to bolt in? Would it require any changes on the front, like different inner/outer covers, etc?



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Whiskey Bent

04-13-2020 08:56:49




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 13:22:38  
Find a 301 out of a 715 combine. It will go in the same as the 282 but will have more power and a good 301 is also easier to find.



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Harry in Ky

04-12-2020 18:00:51




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 13:22:38  
I'm not sure what the intended use for this tractor will be, but I doubt it would justify the added time/expense of installing anything more than the simplest package we can locate. In fact, I'm not sure it justifies doing in the first place, but it's not my tractor and it's not my money.

I see the 282 was used in some cotton pickers, combines, and a few other tractor models. No doubt those engines would also require some parts swapped in order to be made to fit?

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F-Dean

04-13-2020 17:46:11




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 18:00:51  
Go South young man!
There are lots of cotton pickers rusting away since they started baling cotton (Big round type).



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ih560

04-12-2020 14:48:41




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 Re: 656 gas to diesel swap in reply to Harry in Ky, 04-12-2020 13:22:38  
There are a few options of diesel engines you can swap in and some are much better engines than the D282 (D312, D360, D310, D358) but the D282 is a match for the tractor and will bolt in with a few small items modified, like the added glow plug switch/wiring/gauge, and fuel lines from the tank to add the return, but you can use all off-the-shelf parts for a 656 to do this and really won't have to buy much at all.
If you want to swap in any of the other engines, you are going to need to either buy a rear engine plate for a 666 with a 312 (for the D312 or D360) or purchase/fabricate one (D312 or D358), buy another set of frame rails (or lengthen yours), lengthen the hood, and get the appropriate flywheel/clutch setup for whichever engine you choose, as well as the same return line addition (As mentioned above) for the diesel injectors/pump.
It's really up to how much you want to get into. You could also put a DT414,436 or 466 in it, but that is a lot of power to put through that rear if you are actually going to farm with it all day.
A D312 or D360 would make it into a heck of a tractor, but like I said, that is a lot more work than just bolting a D282/D301 into it.

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