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D236 runs rough without glow plugs

T

Tiger Joe

Member
Hey guys. I have an old IH 2606 backhoe with the 236 diesel.
Last year I had the injection pump rebuilt by Rich here on the forum and it works great.

My only issue is the tractor runs with a "miss" unless you leave the glow plugs on all the time. It sounds just like a gas engine that lost spark to one cylinder. RPMs drop about 50 rpms once glow plugs are off too. Flip the glow plugs back on and it will pick right up and sounds good.

I know this tractor was probably road hard in a past life, so the engine is tired, but for as little as I use it I don t see a need to rebuild it. Wondering if this could be something simple maybe? I haven t had the injectors out, but don t these have some kinda odd pre combustion cup? Could one of those be messed up? It seems like it has to be something simple if turning the glow plugs back on can "fix" it
 
Either a bad pattern on an injector, or low compression in one hole. Use an infrared thermal gun, or crack one injector line at a time to find the
missing cyl. Then swap holes with that injector to see if it follows the injector, or stays where it is. My guess is it stays where it is. The use of
a glow plug to keep it operating won't last very long. Jim
 
That's a sure sign of one or more cylinders with low compression. Injectors don't care whether hot or cold. Does the engine have a working thermostat? Hotter the better on a tired engine. The D236 was a borderline starting/running engine when new, and only get worse over time. Years ago a neighbor asked me to overhaul his 460 row crop with the 236, told him I would ONLY do it if I could install a 560/282 crank so it would start better. Nope, too much money. Another poor fellow overhauled it, and the head didn't get the valves/seats it needed to keep starting compression up, valves and seats were both ground, sinking all the valves too deep in the head, lowering the compression even more. Only way it would not smoke white planting corn that spring was with a seed sack over the front, getting the coolant up to 200 degrees. If it NEEDS the plugs on means the compression is not high enough on it's own.
 
IT has been covered , in other words she is plum slap WORE OUT and no magic potion is going to fix it . Just your piggy bank . Ya want to play with old tired iron and ya want it to run like new then ya dig deep and you rebuild , replace and repair . You need NEW sleeves and pistons , you need a total ebuild of the head , ya need the cam rebuilt and new cam followers she probably needs the crank reground along with the deck milled and counter bores recut , might find a couple pre cups cracked injectors rebuilt . But for now all your going to do is burn up the glow plugs.
 
What is your thinking that putting 560 crank in the 460? According to it shop manual a 460 has 350 psi compression. A 560 has 375 psi. You get head surfaced the 460 would have the 375 compression
 
The 282 stock is supposed to be 18.2-1 compression ratio, the 236 was listed at 17.8-1 and it was just low enough to make a preacher cuss when it came to cold starting. The 560 I tractor drive with has 390-400 PSI cranking now after engine changes to get the compression higher. You WON'T get the compression up like you think on the 460 as most diesel heads are FLAT, and are STILL FLAT after milling. Diesel TDC compression CC is CRITICAL for cold starts, drop the CC by 5 and that will KILL the cold starting heat. A gas head compression will usually raise BECAUSE of the compression chamber area that diesel heads don't have. By using a 282 crank and pistons engine would be just like the 560 IF the head is done right too. I had all new valve seats put in my 560 head to keep all valves flush with the head surface. It starts and runs clean fine now cold after 15 seconds glow heat, it would not do that before.
 
plus I will add ? you will see the exhaust wet with diesel from slobbering due to low compression or even a bad injector. plus the pre-combustion cups must be installed correctly or it will be hard starting. and if its a back hoe then it has a pile of hrs. on it. be nice to have some engine history posted.
 
FYI A 460 d piston has a smaller dish than 560 so the compression would probly be more than 375 using 560 crank if that's even possible, (if using the 460 Pistons is what you had in mind) (I would definitely just keep it a d236)
 
If the motor hits on all cylinders with glow
plugs when cold, I would think it should
wake up when it's warmed up. How about under
a load warmed up? Also check the timing
window in injection pump since it's easy to
do.
 
Unfortunately I have very little history on the machine. It was owned by a neighbor and used very little the last 30 years. However I have heard it was used by his son prior to the sons death. And the son destroyed everything he touched.

We bought the machine when the owner died, so couldn t ask him any questions.

I have no idea what thermostat is or isn t in it. I will say this- yes the machine does run much better when it s hot out. I actually joked with my dad this machine is running like it needs worked really hard.

Honestly I wouldn t doubt if something major was wrong inside, like pistons. But the only reason I questioned that was I ve had a machine with holes in a couple pistons and it ran worse when it got hot not better.

From what I have read it sounds like these 236 injectors are pretty rare and hard to come by?

I actually have a video of it running. If I can figure out how to post it I will
 
There are two injectors used in the 236/282/301 diesels, first is the American Bosch ADE10S7C which that valve is no longer available. The late injector is the small IH valve, still available but over 100 bucks each new last time I checked. Both are outward opening and need no return line. Main thing is they should hold pressure on the pop tester, older valves opened about 1500 PSI, later about 1000 PSI. They both are more trouble free than some newer injectors are, and if engine runs better hot than cold I HIGHLY DOUBT it's the injectors. If one does happen to stick open, engine will knock EXTREMELY LOUD, some two cycle oil in the fuel helps stop that. I use one quart to each tank of fuel on my 560, have not had any stick open for years now.
 
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