Int. 424 Hydraulic problem s.

Randallc

New User
Bought used 424, with some yellow parts on it so maybe 2424. Has 2000 loader with the front pump for the loader. someone had done some work on it prior. Said the 3 point and and power steering did not work right. It did for a while. Someone has put a ball valve on the line that goes from the power steering right below the steering wheel to the flow control valve on the front of the reservoir. Move one way for ps and other for 3 point. Knew very little about hydraulics and still know little but never two old to learn at 72. Seems that that would dead head the pump.
Busted a pressure line coming from the pump. Grandson had been moving some round bales and it got to where the 3 point was not lifting them. Change line and had a bad connection and lost quite a bit of fluid. Power steering worked some but not much. 3 point worked, front end loader worked. Had the reservoir full. There was some whining going on, I tried to get air out of lines, brush hog on back, down went the 3 point, and no power steering. Took the suction filter out and cleaned, refilled the res. and nothing. This morning stated it up raised the loader a couple of feet, it quit. It had been jerky but still working. I've got something gone wrong, stuck relief valve, or something. Not sure best place to start.
Anyone have any ideas? Maybe that first valve from the pump that I believes has something to do with dividing fluid between 3 point and power steering. I know, I know very little.
I have been reading the service manual and the operators manual, but shade tree here, just don't get all of it.
 
Hydraulics are not my strong suit. By looking at the parts pages on CaseIh website it looks like there should be 2 pumps on your tractor. One internal maybe for the whole hydraulic system and an auxiliary front mount pump optional, for loader or other use. Sounds to me like the flow divider is not working correctly. Being the reason for the work around in the line for steering and then other way for the other. The previous owner modified it that way to use in place of the flow divider.
As for your other problems I am guessing you have a low oil level issue. Depending on what other changes that have been done my have air in the system that will take some time to work out.
 
The flow divider being that one right under the seat?
Thank you for taking the time to respond to this issue.
 
Hi there are several different hydraulic configurations for a 424/2424 with a 2000 loader.
Before we can trouble shoot we require some pictures of the hydraulic setup for the loader.

Please post some pictures of the hydraulic setup at the front of the seat where the hydraulic suction filter and the 2 aluminum control valves are and also under the seat.

Thanks
JimB
 

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The pressure hose with the new fitting is the one that busted. Split out of the fitting because it had the wrong fitting for the hose. Could have possibly gotten a small piece of hose into this valve, not sure what that valve is called.
 
Wow, this is another variations of hydraulics that I have never seen before on an IH 424.
Could you check that the steel hydraulic pipes that connect under the seat goes to the suction(larges pipe) on the pump mounted in the front of the radiator on the tractor?
The larger rubber hose (return line) should come from the loader hydraulic control valves?

Using this method to connect a 2000 loader using a front mounted pump, the transmission and differential is used as the hydraulic reservoir for the loader.
The Industrial 2424 model has a dipstick up by the dash on top of the transmission case, yours does not appear to have the dipstick so proper hydraulic oil in the transmission is checked by the pipe plug beside the gear shift lever, the lever should be within 6" of the fill plug, use CIH Hytran or equivalent.

The 3pt/power steering normally uses the hydraulic reservoir under the seat and it is filled from the pipe plug behind the seat and proper level is when you look in the fill hole you should see like a shelf down in the reservoir and full is when the shelf is covered. If you have drained this reservoir or ran it low do to a broken hydraulic line you may have to fill the reservoir in stages, fill to proper lever, put filler plug in about 2 turns start tractor and work 3pt and power steering, stop tractor, open filler plug slowly to let out air, refill and repeat procedure until reservoir is correct level.

Is that round cylinder container mount at bottom of the dash a hydraulic filter?

I assume that ball valve has been installed because the hydraulic splitter for the 3pt and power steering stopped working?

I require some more pictures from the right front engine pump hydraulic pipes going back to ball valve to completely understand this hydraulic setup.

PS, the 424 has a very simple hydraulic system called Open Center hydraulics where the pump is constantly pumping hydraulic oil in a loop - from reservoir into the suction line (large line) thru the pump and out the high pressure line(small line) thru the hydraulic valves and back to the reservoir. When a hydraulic valve is opened then the hydraulic oil is diverted to a hydraulic cylinder.


JimB
 
Yes, the loader is operated from the pump at the front of the radiator, and the big hose is the return hose from the loader.
Not sure what that item is below the steering wheel in front of the shiftier.
Yes PO said the ball valve was installed because the pair did not always work properly.
The small line from the tops of the res. runs down to transmission. I have not checked the transmission, it could be low, just didn't think about that. I have kept the res. under the seat full and checked. Tried to get air out.
Puzzling was the loader quit working. Separate pump, though the fluid comes from the same place. Tractor is at the farm and I will check the transmission level tomorrow.
When I run the tractor with the fill off of the res. it burped out of the fill hole, about every 5 to 10 seconds.
 

That's the sketchiest modification I have ever seen. Rube Goldberg would be impressed.

The original setup (with out the extra hoses) looks a lot like what is on my B434. From what I read, the knob that's on an angle is the isolating valve and used to direct the full pressure flow to the auxiliary hydraulic circuit. I suspect that the modification was made to be able to use both the loader and the 3PTH simultaneously.

I can scan some of pages from the 424 manual that I have. Send me a pm with your email address if you are interested.
 
Re burping out the 3pt reservoir, that is normal if there is air in the hydraulic lines and that is the reason I suggested to screw the filler plug in about 2 turns as that usually lets the air out but keeps the oil in.

Re front pump for loader reservoir, it appears from the outside that the hydraulic lines go into the 3pt reservoir under the seat but they actually pass thru to the transmission/diff case, see attached 2000 Loader parts page photo, item #2 is plate under the seat, item #4 is the plate that holds the pipes that reach into the transmission/diff hydraulic oil supply.
This the reason the transmission oil has to be over filled to within a few inches of the filler hole by the gear shift. On a tractor without the 2000 Loader front pump the transmission/diff oil level is checked with a pipe plug down at right foot rest.

Hope this helps, I am travelling tomorrow and part of Sunday but will answer when I can.


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(quoted from post at 17:52:29 11/29/19) OK Thanks for the diagram and and the explanation.
Thanks JimB2 and every one else. My transmission was very low. Fluid gave me back my front end loader. My nephew can over to look the situation and feels the seeping main tractor pump is probably a problem, so soon I'll tear into that.
 
You are welcome, personally I would fix the splitter valve that
is if the previous owner did not butcher the hydraulic system
too badly. Then the 3 point & power steering will work
properly.
 
Would like to tackle the flow controller, but not that may be a big job for me.
Right now, pulled the pump, apparently a Thompson. the gear on the drive shaft spins on the shaft. Not the main gear, but the one in the middle of the pump. have not gotten it apart yet, but looks it could have a small key on both sides. Got the split rings loose.
Hopefully if I can get that back together the 3 point might work. There is also a oring leaking where the manifold attaches to the pump.
 
Update:
The Inner gear on the drive spindle, sheared the key. Of coarse, while tapping it off, the gear broke, but the spindle was galled also.
So looking for a used pumps. found one for 50 dollars at Mac's salvage in Colcord Ok, but it has weak written on it.
Weak could mean worn gears??
Not sure what would cause the inner gear to shear it's key.
 
OK. The pump was the wrong pump. The pump for it is the 9 gpm, the pump on it was apparently the 4.5 gpm.
The old pump did push some hydraulic fluid into the oil, got that changed today.
3 point works and the power steering works without the shutoff ball valve being used. Loader also works.
Thanks guys for all the information and help. That is a filter at the bottom of the dash. Got to figure out how to get into it. But all is working.
 

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