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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Farmall M wont start need help

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Caseih14

08-17-2019 13:54:03




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So i bought a Farmall M last summer, needed some parts/money so now a year later i finally got a carb kit, magneto tune up kit, and an ignition switch. We have fuel to the carb, spark, and the plugs are wet, what could the problem be? We are completely stumped... any help is greatly appreciated!




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Caseih14

08-18-2019 08:09:54




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
https://youtu.be/mYVoq8Y5FTg



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Caseih14

08-18-2019 07:42:49




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Easy until you dont have 1 and never had a use for one until now, we tried to get it going 1 day last year, thought we need a carb kit, ignition switch and stuff, which it did need but that wasnt the primary problem, and just got back to it yesterday...



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rustred

08-18-2019 07:55:28




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-18-2019 07:42:49  
if your tuning up engines you need one, or your in the dark. but anyhow the head needs to come off and valves removed then clean rust from all guides with a guide brush. clean all carbon from valves and seats . then see what you have. possible it may need a valve job also. when you loosen a valve from rust the rust is still in there and when the engine gets hot it will stick again. on assembly make sure the valve stems are dipped in atf or other light oil for lube. do the job properly.

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Caseih14

08-18-2019 07:41:07




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Ill try without it first, if i dont have room ill take them out



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Caseih14

08-18-2019 07:40:01




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
I tapped down on the one thats stuck on cylinder 1, it moved down, but my dad has limited tools at home so im gonna grab a few of mine from work, some heavy screwdrivers so i can try to pry up, his are all cheap and they have broken in the past pretty easily, and i believe the one on cylinder 2 is all the way down already, so ill have to pry it up as well



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Caseih14

08-18-2019 07:36:31




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Just 1



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rustred

08-18-2019 07:23:47




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
and you did not check compression on an engine you are tuning up??? first thing to do. tells you right away what your dealing with.



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F-Dean

08-18-2019 04:46:43




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Does your tractor have a belt pulley? Do you have access to another tractor with a belt pulley? If yes to both questions, use the "Twisted belt" method of starting your tractor.
You can do a lot of tuning when the engine is being turned-over.



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kevinj54

08-18-2019 04:10:31




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Yep, if the push rods are bent they may be stuck pretty tight.

He really needs to pull the rockers & push rods for room to work anyway.



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 18:01:21




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Ill look into that, thanks! But ya, ill just take it slow and hope for the best! If i need help ill come back here, a lot of helpful people!



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 16:56:20




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
https://youtu.be/5LuoPifl264



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John M

08-17-2019 17:44:47




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 16:56:20  
Very similar yes, but dont expect yours to come loose that easy, although they might, you never know. I would also like to suggest, since you are young, get a manual. It may be very helpful to you. I wouldn't get an IT manual though. I understand they have some misinformation in them.



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 16:53:54




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
https://youtu.be/mxqWMl4zB9I

Something like that?



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 16:51:15




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Ok, im sure theres a video somewhere of getting them unstuck to, if i think its something i can try on our concrete pad outside i will, if not ill take it to the pros, again thanks so much for your help guys!



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Janicholson

08-17-2019 16:53:40




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 16:51:15  
From its looks there is a high probability it will come unstuck. Jim



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 16:47:39




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Ok, im a welder at a local welding/machine shop, ill see what the machinists have to say about it on Monday at coffee! Thanks for your guys help! Much appreciated! If it wasnt for forums I dont where id be, thanks again!



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John M

08-17-2019 16:43:20




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
#1 Intake, #2 Exhaust are stuck open. You may be able to free them up without pulling the head. What I have done in the past is to spray as much as I can get to with a penetrating oil, several times over the course of a couple of days, then pry up on the spring near the retainer lightly. IF it comes all the way up, spray some more lube on it, push it back down with a hammer handle or piece of wood/ Keep doing that until it moves freely. OR just pull thehead and take it to a machine shop and have it gone through. Last one I had done was a couple of hundred bucks, but had a couple of seats and some valves put in.

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Caseih14

08-17-2019 16:41:41




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Thanks! Always have been interested in the looks of the M/H, an older gentlemen from church had one when i was like 10, been wanting one ever since, finally found one at an auction last year a few hours away, got it for a few hundred bucks, knew it wasnt seized, but i guess we got this. All apart of the story! Cant wait to get er going, crazy how its almost 75 years old!



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 16:27:59




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Machine shop right? What do you think it would cost?



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 16:23:43




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
So how do you get em unstuck



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old

08-17-2019 21:35:55




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 16:23:43  
Exhaust valve can be easy simply by pouring ATF down the exhaust and letting it sit a few days. Intake are harder since it is hard to get ATF to them and keep it on them but one can fill the cylinders and maybe have some luck



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kevinj54

08-17-2019 16:21:23




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Ya, yer looking at stuck valves.



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 16:13:52




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
But definently something aint right



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Absent Minded Farmer

08-17-2019 16:29:50




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 16:13:52  
It look like your exhaust valves are stuck open on cyl's 1 & 2. Maybe time to have the head reworked..... or at least cleaned. It it possible to pull the just valves & guides & replace them. There may be a few more options I'm forgetting. May want to start a fresh post with your latest findings & pictures.... or Jim or Old or someone should run across the new info in this post & be able to help. Your predicament is relatively easy, it's just a matter of what route you want to take for repairs.

Doin' good for 17! Keep at it, you'll be good to go in no time if you have the mind/time/abilities to. I need to get back out to my tractor & get it back together. Runnin' out of sun, here.

Good Luck!
Mike

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Caseih14

08-17-2019 16:09:28




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
[img]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto41239.jpg[/img

What am i lookin at? Btw im 17 so the more complex engine stuff im new to





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Caseih14

08-17-2019 15:54:07




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Ive checked timing so many times i dont know whats right now , read my latest post, i think i figured it out... maybe you can give your opinion on what i found



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 15:52:16




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Would valve issue cause no compression? Cuz now instead of just checking 1 piston for a push of air, i checked all 4... and 1 and 2 dont have a push of air while 3 and 4 do, that's obviously why it wont start? But would it be valves then or something more serious, also what would i be looking for if i took the valve cover off?



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Janicholson

08-17-2019 16:44:46




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 15:52:16  
You found the primary issue. To get it to work may only require a small hammer, and some penetrating spray (not WD40). Spray up under the spring near the top of the valve to get some juice up to the top. Move the pushrod (long thing on the other side with a cup head) out of the block (keep them in the same hole, so be tidy). Gently tap on the valve butt end (top most thing) if it just goes deeper, Use several screw drivers in the spring to pry up on the retainer, slip the blades between the spring coils near the top. Don't force things. Spray more juice in there. Tapping and prying will get them back up. Use a small pry bar to move the valve up and down to assure it is loose. Once it is loose, put the pushrod back in the hole (carefully to seat it in the lifter down in there). Remove the adjuster screw from the rocker, and put it back together. When they are all working, you will need to set the valve clearance (set the clearance to .020 cold), Watch a Youtube to do the setting. When running and warmed up, the setting is .017" Jim

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Caseih14

08-18-2019 14:44:18




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Janicholson, 08-17-2019 16:44:46  
Hi Jim, you sound like you know pretty much everything there is to know about Farmall M's, would you mind taking a look at my latest discusion? Just for cleaning the carbon off the pistons and stuff



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Absent Minded Farmer

08-17-2019 15:58:45




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 15:52:16  
Yes. If your valves are hung up, you will end up with little to no breeze from the plug hole. If you pull the valve cover, & there's some space between the ends of the push rods or valves & the rockers, they may be stuck. Give the rockers a rockin' & see what happens.

Mike



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 15:21:30




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
I replaced the condenser, and the rotor, put it back the same position as it was



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Absent Minded Farmer

08-17-2019 15:33:12




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 15:21:30  
Sounds like you did not take the mag off of the tractor. Ok. Did you change out the plug wires? If they're old & cracked, they might be transfering a spark to the wrong wire.

Mike



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 15:34:28




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Absent Minded Farmer, 08-17-2019 15:33:12  
Bought the tractor a year ago and the wires are quite new looking



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Absent Minded Farmer

08-17-2019 15:52:14




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 15:34:28  
Hmmmm. Yep, you may want to double check your timing. The mag should trip when the pointer eclipses or just passes the 2nd notch on the crank pulley.

Mike



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Absent Minded Farmer

08-17-2019 15:19:21




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
It also sounds like your seriously out of time. Did you pull the mag to give it a tune up? I only ask, because when I had the issue of backfiring twice, it was my timing that was off by 180.

Mike



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 14:43:33




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Also when turning it over it gives a backfire out of the carb



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old

08-17-2019 15:46:23




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 14:43:33  
Back fire out of the carb can be a timing issue or a valve problem or plug wires on wrong



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old

08-17-2019 14:07:22




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
If the plugs are wet there gas fouled and need o be cleaned. Do you have a good blue/white spark that will jump a 1/4 inch gap or more??
Do you have the firing order correct??
Hows the compression?? If to low it will not run or start



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 14:10:13




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to old, 08-17-2019 14:07:22  
Fresh gas, tested the spark on all the plugs, firing order on engine is 1-3-4-2, all the plug wires are lined up with that order on the distributor, we took and plug out and hand cranked until #1 cylinder was at the top and it lined up with the rotor in the distributor, not sure about compression, dont have a tester, seems like it turns over the right speed



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old

08-17-2019 14:14:34




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 14:10:13  
While this is not a real good test of compression one can stick there thumb in the plug holes and spin it over and it should push/blow your thumb to of the hole if the compression is half way good. There was a post just the other day where a guy thought he had the plug wires on right but was one nipple off and once he moved the plug wires around the tractor fired right up



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 14:18:11




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to old, 08-17-2019 14:14:34  
Just tried this, big push of air comes out



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old

08-17-2019 14:20:47




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 14:18:11  
With a mag it is easy to be one nipple off as for firing order. You might try moving all the plug wires one nipple forward. Mark where each was to start with and then move then 4 times and each time you move them try to start it.



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 14:31:11




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to old, 08-17-2019 14:20:47  
Went all the way around, 2 opposite back fired bad, the other 2 fired sometimes but still didnt start



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Janicholson

08-17-2019 14:14:30




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 14:10:13  
Normally the #1 is clocked at the 1:30 position looking from the rear. Then clockwise 3-4-2. Jim



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old

08-17-2019 14:29:59




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Janicholson, 08-17-2019 14:14:30  
There was a big argument the other day on here about the direction the rotor turns. CW or CCW



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 14:33:12




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to old, 08-17-2019 14:29:59  
It turns clockwise, take the cap off and turned it over and it goes clockwise



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 14:21:42




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Janicholson, 08-17-2019 14:14:30  
Cranked for about 15 seconds, 2 big pops came out of the exhaust...



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 14:19:28




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Janicholson, 08-17-2019 14:14:30  
#1 cylinder is at the front of the tractor right? Next to the rad



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Janicholson

08-17-2019 15:17:37




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 14:19:28  
Yes. Was #1 on compression, or just up? If you felt air being pushed out of it with your thumb, and stopped at the second timing mark, that is TDC #1. Jim



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 15:24:03




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Janicholson, 08-17-2019 15:17:37  
Second timing mark?



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 14:18:47




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Janicholson, 08-17-2019 14:14:30  
Ill give it a try



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FastFarmall

08-17-2019 14:02:10




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to Caseih14, 08-17-2019 13:54:03  
Have you tied pulling it?



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Caseih14

08-17-2019 14:05:17




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 Re: Farmall M wont start need help in reply to FastFarmall, 08-17-2019 14:02:10  
Rear tires are shot, 1 rim is completely rusted through



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