In frame rebuild kit prep

sald

Member
I am looking to set aside some time to do an in frame rebuild on my 1940 A. I have few questions.
1-Can I order the kit before hand if I am changing sleeves pistons etc?
2-I am looking at this kit..."Basic In-Frame Engine Kit, with Stepped Head Pistons Part Number BIFH1154"
3-Should I change all the valves and springs at the same time or can I do that at another date. They just are slightly pitted on top but are ok.

If there is procedure to follow before doing this I would like to have it in place and read over a few times. Any advice will be helpful.
Finally, I figuring taking off for 2 days to do this.
Sal
 
With out opening ti up you cannot be sure what rod and main bearing you may need or if the crank has to be pulled and turned. If you can so much as catch a finger nail on a rod journal the crank need to be pulled and turned
 
A couple answers: You can order the kit. YT has good kits is the kit you mention from here? You need to know serial number, and displacement C-113 if original. Probably distillate fuel design originally. Does it have a smaller hole in front of the gas filler hole?
If you have never done an engine, expect to take more than 2 days. It may take a week to have the cylinder head work done. (for the valves to be correct you must know the status of the Gasoline only, Distillate question, or they will be wrong). Do the valves by taking it and the parts to a competent shop and have valve guides and PC style valve seals installed there are machining and fitting that is not done outside of a shop. Jim
 
I checked all the journals last year when I dropped the pan. This tractor is in very good shape and suspect it was never pushed hard over it's life. Anyway, my father looked it over from under and said it was pristine. He is a retired mechanic. It was he who inspected the journals. I am getting antifreeze in the oil and number 3 cylinder is lower on compression than the rest. I can't go up hills in 4th so I would like to do this rebuild. Thanks for the help.
 
It is a gasoline engine only, no additional hole or damper control. The zenith carb does have an adjustable main but no other indications. Yes it is from this site https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Farmall-A_Basic-In-Frame-Engine-Kit-with-Stepped-Head-Pistons_BIFH1154.html I have the serial number FAA 24281
My father had showed me how to install new valves and lap them years ago and said he thought I would be ok if mic'd everything up and made sure the kit matched up with the originals.
 
If that is the case yes you can pull the sleeve etc while still together. I have uses a jack and 2X4 to pop the sleeves out once the head and pan are off. As far as climbing a hill in 4th I cannot do that with my BA an if normal
 
You mentioned that about the hill last week. It would be a funny if I did all the work and still couldn't pull the hill LOL. Honestly the tractor kicks over instantly and runs perfectly even when it is cold out. No smoke nothing. You got me thinking may be I should belay my intentions until the winter. Hmmmm
 
How do you know if you need to replace the pistons and sleeves? Based on what your father said maybe you don't need to do that. I wouldn't buy valves - I would let a machine shop decide if you need valves. If the ones in it have never been ground then the shop can check the head for cracks and warpage and grind the valves and seats and you end up with a head like new. Maybe put in new rings based on what you find after you remove the head.
 
Weather its a wet or dry sleeve engine, especially a wet sleeve, the crankshaft will need to covered really good to keep the slop from the cooling sys off of it. And keep the crank covered till you're ready to install the piston, it also helps after the sleeves are in, to put a short bolt with a washer on the sleeve top ridge, to keep it from pulling up after you install a piston and turn the engine.
 
When I built he BA from 2 parts Bs and one parts A I used the best parts I had and checked the sleeves and rings and put in the best I have which where with in spec. Compression is good on all cylinders but I cannot drive up my driveway hill in 4th gear. It does have 2 tires on the rear left side an the A-16 mower on the back so a bit heavier then just a plain A or B. Oh and by the way the hill is steep enough that I had to add weights up front to keep from popping wheelies as I go up. Front liked to get just enough light to cause steering problems
 
Good points. My father said the same thing. One cylinder is down in psi 65 and the others 85. He had me try engine restore and see what happens but I still have a leak from that cylinder's o ring. It was last week when I put in the restore so I don't know if it helped, he said it works if the damage is minor. He also didn't want me to spray water in the carb or any seafoam. He said it could make it worse and that carbon is good to an extent.
 
My driveway is the same, if you pull out of the garage on any bit of snow my f150 will go down and there is nothing I can do about it. Incidentally at the bottom of my driveway the road goes up at the same incline and distance as my driveway so when you get to the crest of the hill you are on the same plane as my garage doors. It stinks!
 
@Charlie...I live in what used to be an agricultural milk area of western Connecticut. Now there are few farms and there are no tractor saavy shops around. The machine shops here are highly priced and really only racing car shops. I once took an exaust pipe from the manifold for my A to have 1/16 knocked off the OD and the dude wanted $50. Heaven knows what they would want to do what you mentioned.
 
The hill I have on my driveway has a curve at the bottom and TOP SO NO WAY TO GET A GOOD RUN WHEN THERE IS SNOW OR ice and it gravel and a mile long
 
Several engine shops around here do just about any engine that comes in. I bought an A tractor 4 years ago with no compression due to bad valves and took the head to a local engine shop. We had to put new valves in that head and the total cost came to $500. Same job these days is probably closer to $600 around here. That cost includes all the stuff I mentioned earlier. You could put new valves in your self but you still need the valve seats cleaned up. The guys I've used loved the old tractor heads as they were dirt simple compared to new engines they normally work on. I know that's a lot of money but its the only way I know to get a head done right unless you have your own shop or a buddy that has one. You may be able to find an already rebuilt head for less money - I never tried to buy one. I would think a shop could give you a pretty accurate estimate so you would know before spending money. There is one sad thing all old tractors have in common - they cost lots of money to fix up most of the time.
 
sure is funny you are presuming u need an engine rebuild. check the compression and that will tell you more than everyone here has to say about your engine. you may just need a complete tune up , which includes a valve setting. without pictures and precise measuring its all presuming so far.
 
ok, so I read farther down u had the compression checked. ok sounds like you need sleeve O-rings and a set of rings, and the head done at a machine shop. its usually best to get all info in the first post to make things easier when reading. you will need to have the head back in your hands from shop to have it running in two days. they will spend a day rebuilding it.
 
Thanks, yes. I didn't want to put the whole history of the tractor into a boring dissertation. I did set the valves and reground the rocker arms and mirror polished them. If anything, I think I should really pull the head. The compression test showed no leaking but didn't pump up that fast. I did it cold and dry.
 
(quoted from post at 17:26:07 06/13/19) I am looking to set aside some time to do an in frame rebuild on my 1940 A. I have few questions.
1-Can I order the kit before hand if I am changing sleeves pistons etc?
2-I am looking at this kit..."Basic In-Frame Engine Kit, with Stepped Head Pistons Part Number BIFH1154"
3-Should I change all the valves and springs at the same time or can I do that at another date. They just are slightly pitted on top but are ok.

If there is procedure to follow before doing this I would like to have it in place and read over a few times. Any advice will be helpful.
Finally, I figuring taking off for 2 days to do this.
Sal

I don't know what your "skill level" is but at this point you have an intact, running tractor.

Unless you are experienced with all that you may find when you tear into it, it may become just a "parts tractor".

NO WAY would I expect to do an "inframe OH" on a nearly 80 year old engine.

Do you have any idea of how "nasty" the water jacket and sleeve sealing area may be?

I'd remove it, tear it down, have it "hot tanked" or thermally cleaned, then have line bore, crank and connecting rods professionally evaluated, and repaired, as needed, including fitting new wrist pin bushings.

Have the head evaluated and repaired, as well.

WHAT would you go that far and even consider putting off valve work "'til a later date"?

WHAT do you expect to accomplish by tossing $$$$ at this thing and doing a "hack job"?
 
Honestly that is somewhat insulting. I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and worked in the machine manufacturing shops years ago. My father is an old school mechanic from 60 years ago. It wouldn't be a "hack job" with that said thank you and completely understand you're warning. I will probably put this off until the winter. :)
 
Don't take it personally. We don't know you, your history, your father, or your father's history.

Far many more UNqualified people come here with lofty goals and expectations, than qualified folks. It's better to err on the side of caution, than to tell someone who doesn't even know "righty tighty lefty loosey" that they can handle a full engine rebuild with nothing more than a hammer and a pack of bubble gum.

Back to your tractor. Have you done a compression test? Given that it starts and runs so well, and doesn't smoke, I would not waste money on any sort of overhaul.
 
(quoted from post at 06:27:36 06/14/19) Honestly that is somewhat insulting. I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and worked in the machine manufacturing shops years ago. My father is an old school mechanic from 60 years ago. It wouldn't be a "hack job" with that said thank you and completely understand you're warning. I will probably put this off until the winter. :)

Please don't be insulted, and also, I like the followup post by "BarnyardEngineering".

An engineering degree or working in "machine manufacturing shops" does does not necessarily "cover" all the details of re-doing and old engine.

An example would be figuring this job can easily be done in 2 days, and not planning on a thorough cleaning of the block or mentioning connecting rod reconditioning and piston pin/bushing fitting.

There's LOTS to be learned from those who have "been there and done that".

Also, there's no better help than talking with a guy who's spent a lifetime in an AUTOMOTIVE machine shop, for advice on all the little details that make for a successful O.H., and a LONG lasting engine. Sounds like that may be a tough "find" in your area, though!

You are WISE to "put this off a bit", ask lots of questions, and be prepared to do it correctly.

I've hung around here for many years, and have read many sad posts by guys, no matter how well educated or how well intentioned, who blindly tore into their first engine overhaul, only to be left with a "parts tractor" and a smaller bank account.
 
I am not insulted. Just pointing out that the tone can be insulting. I have a degree that means crap to my father LOL. You guys are the experts I know what books taught me. I am here for advice and making no presumptions. Just the quoting and the CAPS come off a bit nasty.
Forget it...
Thanks Bob.
Answer to the question. Yes I took compression readings (may have done it wrong)
Conditons:
Cold engine not started for 3 days
Removed only one spark plug at a time
Used Starter
Gauge was air tight
Cranked Engine for 5 seconds but didn't get a good reading (15-20#)
Cranked for 1/2 second 5 times and got up to 85 in 1,2 and 4----65 in 3
Thoughts?
 
What improvement or other outcome were you intending or what are your expectations of this little adventure? What do you use this A for and what will you be using it for? These are the things I ask myself before hand and the answers dictate how extensive the project is, AND, I never get parts before opening up the patient. gm
 
You did do a couple things wrong in the compression testing. First thing is many people recommend removing ALL spark plugs and setting the throttle to wide open. That lets the starter spin the engine as fast as possible.

Personally I've never noticed much of a difference one way or the other.

The other thing you should be doing is cranking continuously. I am not sure why you weren't getting readings cranking for 5 seconds... What you should do is crank until the gauge stops going up. Sometimes that takes more than 5 seconds.

That said 85PSI is low but passable, and 65PSI is really low, to the point where the tractor would be hard to start. Your results might be reality or it might be the result of the unorthodox testing method.

With the bottom end looking "pristine" it is entirely possible the engine was overhauled, but never broken in properly, which would explain the low compression readings and lack of power. In that case all you would need to do is rehone the crosshatch back into the cylinder liners and install new rings. Then take the tractor out and WORK the SNOT out of it to seat the rings.
 
"unorthodox" that's funny... I would say incorrect. I am not sure about the 65 because I am not sure there is any loss of power. What got me started on this whole thing was that someone said I should be able to take relatively steep hills in 4th gear. In 3rd doesn't seem like anything would stop it. I may try it again and see what happens. It starts up with the hand crank cold starting from 6 o'clock going to 12. I have a Harbor Freight Gauge which I have no idea what it's baseline is. I guess I can get a fitting and check with a compressor.
 
Is it possible you only need a head gasket since you reported antifreeze in your oil? Do you have exhaust gas in the coolant?
 
It all started when I was led to believe that this tractor should pull steep hills in 4th gear. I just changed out the rear wheels to 11x24 new rims and tubes. When I took of the left 9x24 it was no problem, when I did the right I found it was filled with Calcium. I am curious to try the hill again without the extra weight now. Curious is there a place to see how much a 9x24 calcium wheel weighs? Man was it heavy when after it fell over and I picked it back up.
 
I was wondering about that as well. Coolant is clean. No gurgling sounds but haven't pressure tested it yet.
 

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