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spark plugs

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MtMan

06-12-2019 20:02:25

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I know the gap for the plugs but what is the correct Champion Spark Plugs for a Super A Farmall. Thanks

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timcasbolt

06-17-2019 16:37:54

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

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Bump to the top in hopes JDEM sees it.

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timcasbolt

06-15-2019 07:42:32

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

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This morning I was further inspired to learn more about Henry Ford being sued for using his own name, but was unsuccessful in finding any references to it. Can you give any detail that would help me in my search?

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timcasbolt

06-14-2019 20:22:57

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

This discussion inspired me to do a little more reading about the Stranahan brothers. A history website found the same "fuzziness" about who owned what when. Not that it matters much, but interesting nonetheless.

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timcasbolt

06-14-2019 10:45:52

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

According to wikipedia, Albert Champion was an employee of Champion Spark Plug Co. owned by the Stranahan Brothers. When he and William Durant started their own spark plug company, the name Champion was already trademarked by the Stranahan Brothers, and they weren't willing to allow anyone else to use the name so he called his company AC spark plugs.

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JDEM

06-14-2019 14:33:19

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Re: spark plugs in reply to timcasbolt, 06-14-2019 10:45:52

I cannot say I was there to witness all the business dealings. Reading history is as close as I am going to get. What I have read does not agree with what you have stated. I do not regard Wikipedia as a "primary document" or as always correct. That said, since you have cited Wikipedia, so will I. The following is from Wikipedia.

"Albert Champion (5 April 1878 Paris � 26 October 1927 Paris) was a French track bicycle racer who won the 1899 Paris�Roubaix. In 1905 he incorporated the Albert Champion Company in Boston to make porcelain spark plugs with his name on them. Three years later founded the Champion Ignition Company in Flint, Michigan.[1] In 1922 he changed the name to AC Spark Plug Company, after his initials, to settle out of court with his original partners in the Albert Champion Company (documented in Peter Joffre Nye's new biography, The Fast Times of Albert Champion: From Record-Setting Racer to Dashing Tycoon, An Untold Story of Speed, Success, and Betrayal (Prometheus Books, 2014)"

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JDEM

06-14-2019 06:04:20

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

I've heard all sorts of complaints about every make of spark-plug ever made. Not sure if hardly any have any real truth behind them.

That said, the two separate Champion spark-plug companies have a kind of funny history. A guy from France (Albert Champion) started both companies. Champion and Albert Champion. The latter sold as "A.C" spark plugs. Just like Henry Ford, Albert Champion got sued for using his own name.

Mr. Champion got his spark-plug ideas from a French spark-plug company named Nieuport. He was said to be kind of an angry guy. He got in a fight with another man who he claimed was hitting on his wife. He got decked by the guy and died from the beating.

So much for the great history of Champion and "Albert Champion" spark plugs.

With small engine use, we had many failures with shorted insulators with Champion plugs in the mid 70s. The problem was quickly corrected and Champions have been fine since. They come OEM on many cars and trucks. Not sure what all the moaning and groaning is.

Here is what the original Nieuport spark plug looked like that Albert Champion built his two companies on.
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timcasbolt

06-13-2019 19:56:25

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

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You got it. I've had squeaking Dayco's, Kelly-Springfield, and a couple store brands new out of the sleeve. It takes too long to change a serp belt on a Cummins to have to do it more than once because of inferior quality.

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JDEM

06-14-2019 05:44:26

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Re: spark plugs in reply to timcasbolt, 06-13-2019 19:56:25

Were your "squeaking" Daycos the correct size? Dayco comes OEM on many new cars and trucks. I have never had a problem when I took the time to make sure I was getting exactly the size I wanted. Dayco and Gates make many versions of belts. Last time I bought a serpentine belt for my 1994 diesel, there were 4 different Daycos and 5 different Gates belts I could of used.

GM had alternator belt slippage issues on diesels back in the late 80s and a thicker Dayco was the fix.

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gab

06-13-2019 19:45:25

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

No complaints with Champion D21s in my Super M and Super C.

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John T

06-13-2019 17:54:13

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

Yo Tim, To your post "if I can't have Gates belts and hoses, I'll go elsewhere" reminds me of some time back I installed a brand new DAYCO belt because the old one squeaked NEW DAYCO ALSO SQUEAKED GRRRRR RRRRR so I'm at my buddys shop and he says use a Gates belt, he installed it, you guessed it NO MORE SQUEAK LOL FWIW (same as all other opinions zero) Ive had good luck with Autolite plugs myself.

John T

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timcasbolt

06-13-2019 16:09:22

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

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It does make you laugh sometimes. I'm not particularly brand loyal, (have owned Fords, Chevies, and Dodges) but there are a few things I've learned: Champions work best in Chryslers, AC's work best in Chevies, and if I can't have Gates belts and hoses, I'll go elsewhere.

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JDEM

06-13-2019 14:52:13

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

Champion certainly was the most chosen plug by OEM tractor makers back in the day.
I think Champion had a few quality control issues in the mid 70s. Not long after that their copper-core plugs came out. I cannot say I have had a single bonifide Champion plug failure since. I can say with certitude I have had several NGK plugs fail and I used to think they were the best on the market.

On a side-note, I just tore the fuel system out of my Suzuki King Quad 4WD ATV after it failed to start and I assumed it was not getting fuel. Talk about silly mistakes! I failed to check the obvious since I sometimes think I know everything. ATV had a vacuum fuel pump that has given me issues in the past. So without even pulling the plug to see if it was wet, I installed an electric fuel pump. Then? NO start. Ends up the problem was a brand new, out of the box NGK plug. I was kind of shocked. I stuck in an old crusty Champion and it fired right up. Just one anecdotal story of a failed plug and a "stoopid" mistake.
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John T

06-13-2019 13:51:18

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

You gotta love it, the OP asked which "CHAMPIONS" are correct, but anytime "spark plugs" or brand of oil type questions are asked it really draws out the comments, even if its NOT part of the question. Some will swear they have used one brand (plugs or oil) for years never a problem and they are the best, while others swear another brand to be best. Wouldn't it be a boring world if we all had the same experiences and opinions lol. I have used tons of several different brands of spark plugs myself and found it was more often the gap and ignition system and engine condition and a whole sort of other factors that mattered MORE THEN the brand of plugs. But hey there can well be quality differences among brands. I know what I've had best luck with....

Take care yall

John T

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JDEM

06-13-2019 13:22:38

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

Here is what the Farmall A came with new. Subs to a D15Y or D18Y now.
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JDEM

06-13-2019 13:13:10

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

I have three Champion books here. 1968, 1976, and 2008. For a Farmall A, they all show a "turbo-action" plug designated by a "Y" at the end. Either a D15Y or a D18Y. 18 mm, 1/2" reach, turbo action, and 7/8" hex. The hotter D18Y for light service and colder D15Y for hard service.

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Bob M

06-13-2019 08:37:47

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

FWIW I have been using Champion D21 in my Super M and NGK AP6 in the Super H for several years. Have had NO sparkplug issues with either brand.

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rustred

06-13-2019 06:09:56

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

the D16 plug was used in pretty much every model of these tractors. as well as case and Minneapolis. plus there is different heat ranges, higher the # hotter the plug, or the thinner the electrode the hotter the plug. gap is .025. I don't know what all the fuss is about champions. most of mine have champions also. guess some people say stuff without an explanation as to why. it don't matter what plug you use as long as the engine has good compression and tuned up, any plug will work. sure there is faulty ones in all brands, as I have found with autolite to be the ones that miss fire. put in champions and it still is running good. this is what I have experienced.

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Charlie M

06-13-2019 03:17:30

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

I think the manual for most of all the old Farmalls used a D15 plug but with today's gas they won't work. You have to have a hotter plug than that. You have to go up[ at least one heat range and I've seen people using a D18 plug. I run D21 plugs in all my tractors, have for 30 years and never have had a problem.

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53 super H

06-12-2019 21:14:49

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

No champion should go in a IH/Farmall

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old

06-12-2019 20:59:19

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

Do not know the plug number but I would not use a champ plug any more there made in China I use NGK plugs in all my stuff because they hold up longer with this crap gas we now have

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David G

06-12-2019 20:37:54

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

I worry less about the gap and more about having the top electrode square.

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MtMan

06-12-2019 20:25:35

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

I remember years ago that you would use champion plugs in all Farmalls. I don't know about todays plugs. I know in my car and pickup the plugs seem to last a lot longer than they use to. That's a good thing. Thanks for the info. again

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MtMan

06-12-2019 20:21:05

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

Thank You. I seem to remember that was the right number years ago, but this tractor has different make plugs and I don't believe they are the right heat range, Thanks again

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timcasbolt

06-12-2019 20:10:45

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Re: spark plugs in reply to MtMan, 06-12-2019 20:02:25

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Take this with a grain of salt, but a quick google search claims the number to be RD15Y, which translates to the 526. That might mean the RD15Y is no longer available, and the 526 replaces it.

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DR. EVIL

06-13-2019 05:15:31

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Re: spark plugs in reply to timcasbolt, 06-12-2019 20:10:45

Champion has a stock number for a box of 4 plugs, in this case, #526 is a box of four RD-15Y plugs.

My Super H has D-15Y's I installed back around 1985, never fouled a plug, runs most during cold weather pushing snow. My M has D-18Y's Dad installed back in 2006 when a small leak on the tube from the M&W live hydraulic pump dropped on a plug wire and fouled a very old Champion plug. When Dad farmed, the Super H got right around 250 hours run time every year. Every fall after fieldwork, picking, stalk chopping was all done I'd put new plugs, CHAMPION plugs, in it and IH points & condenser. Normally the old plugs, points & condensers got put in a coffee can for safe keeping. Dad's M, the one I have now, was getting harder and harder to start. Dad went to town, bought a set of AC Delco spark plugs, put them in and it was even harder to start. Within about a week would barely start and run. Dad looked around, found my coffee can with used Champion plugs with 250 hours on them. Put them in the M and it fired right up! I "Think" that was the set that the oil leak onto the plug wire fouled one plug.

Just did a bit of research. FEDERAL-MOGUL owns Champion now. Guess who owns Federal Mogul? TENNACO.

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504

06-12-2019 20:21:07

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Re: spark plugs in reply to timcasbolt, 06-12-2019 20:10:45

Don't take this the wrong way,if you can get Champions to run more than a week in an IH, you are better than I am.

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mike van

06-14-2019 02:21:29

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Re: spark plugs in reply to 504, 06-12-2019 20:21:07

The set in my 574 is about 15 years old.

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Charlie M

06-13-2019 03:14:47

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Re: spark plugs in reply to 504, 06-12-2019 20:21:07

I've had Champions running in all my tractors (11 now) for the past 30 years and no problems. I don't understand what everyone is saying is wrong with them, I'm not seeing it.

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wicksfield

06-13-2019 06:01:19

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Re: spark plugs in reply to Charlie M, 06-13-2019 03:14:47

Same here. I suppose there could have been a bad run of Champs but I haven't seen it. I do use my gassers for farming so maybe that's the difference. They just don't putt around.

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Charlie M

06-13-2019 09:04:58

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Re: spark plugs in reply to wicksfield, 06-13-2019 06:01:19

Same here - I don't do a of hours on my tractors each year but I do plow and work a few acres and some hay each year. They aren't parade tractors.

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