David Sr

New User
I?m working on my M that has been sitting for awhile
Having two problems that I?m trying to figure out
One is the battery that I tryed using an 8 volt that made it spin over nice but the new push starter button didn?t hold up from TC. So I went with 6 volt group 1 battery witch is now struggling to turn over. Now I?m not sure to get a bigger 6 V battery or change over to 12 any suggestions tractor will hardly get used.
The Second problem I?m having is the brake shoes.
Quite a few years ago I put new brake pads on but instantly they were all the way out of adjustment. I have yet taking the cover back off but is it possible that I put the brake shoes on the wrong way. Oh yeah by the way I do have large battery cables
 
sitting how long?? maybe the cyl's are rusty. person should always squirt some oil in first before turning engine. plus you have a bad starter. plus did you try cranking it with plugs the plugs in? if 6 volts don't turn that engine over you have other problems and 12 volts is the bandaid. are those brakes band or disc type. reg. m should be band brakes unless at the end of production.
 
I had it running well with the 8volt for the day until the new starter button shorted out. So that scared me so I try to go back to 6 volt. As far as the brakes I said shoes but they are bands
 
Is the group 1 battery ok. There's still room in the box for a bigger one. I see there are more groups size but not sure if they will fit.
 
I would stick with the 6 volt if possible especially if it still has the original generater. Switching to 12 volt takes away from originality and and that's what ppl do if engine gets worn out as a easy fix to get it to start.
 
Using an 8 volt battery didn't cause the switch to fail. Most new switches are crap now. Get one from Echlin, High Standard, or Niehoff.
I do agree with others though, a good six volt battery should crank it fast enough to start.
 
I would convert to 12V with alternator, best money you will NOT spend messing around with 6 or 8V.
 
Keep the 6V system. I've had two tractors that the previous owners cobbled together 12V conversions on. They don't look original, the lights don't work, and the points burn up. The points problem is the worst thing and it is difficult to find the correct ballast resistors locally sometimes. Most shops can repair the starter or generators on the these machines and if they cant be fixed, there are plenty of used cores on eBay or at salvage yards. I had trouble getting my A to start after it had sat for several years and it ended up being the push button on the starter itself was not making good contact. The larger battery cables make a big difference also.
 
I was really hoping not to change to 12v. I like to keep things as much as original as possible. I still have a 51 Chevy all original. I did some checking on a group two battery that will fit in the box may have to give it a try. As for the break ban I?ll have to pull the cover off to see what?s going on. When I did that job at the time they to most likely after market.
 
Actually, NO, They didn't. Dad's '51 M was delivered December 23rd 1951. Christmas Day, Dad went to start it up and grind ear corn for the cattle, was cold, below Zero, brand new tractor barely cranked over a cylinder at a time. Did NOT start. Thank goodness the '47 M started or cattle would have gone hungry. That '51 M never did start well on 6 volt. If I'd run it more than every two years it would start good now with 12 volts and an alternator.
You would really be ------ off if you saw a 6 volt battery and generator under the hood of your new car or pickup truck. If you need a reliable starting tractor why rely on antique technology. I got 20 years out of my DieHard Gold group 65 12V battery on my Super H with 37 amp Delco 10SI alternator and it mostly gets used in winter to push snow, tractor started great the whole time, rebuilt the starter and replaced the battery 5 years ago, tractor still starts great. Have not touched the alternator since Dad delivered the tractor here about 1994.

You can't see the alternator under the hood on H/SH/M/SM, takes a sharp eye to notice no voltage regulator. I see guys that torch cut the right side of their hoods to mount the alternator. Those guys should be beat up. Bet there the ones that can't wire a tractor too.
 
An 8 volt battery will not in the least do harm to the switch or any other part. Make sure that all the connections are ultra clean including the ground. Are you using positive ground? That is the norm for 6 volt M's. The only problem with an 8 volt battery, at full charge is 9.2 volts and your charger will only do about 8.4 . I have a Farmall 1943 A with that setup and it works great. Changing to 12 volt is not always the answer. I just spent 3 hours on a 12 volt M that wouldnt turn over the battery. After cleaning everything I found a broken battery clamp on the positive side. Who would have thought that would affect anything as the clamp was tight on the battery post. New clamp did the trick
 
The last two master switches I've bought for my equipment, both of them were loose where the pot metal crimped onto the plastic. I had to brad the crimp so it wouldn't spin/pop out.
 

That new push button starter switch is defective. Most likely made in China. It would have failed even with the six volt battery.
 
A group 2 6V is 1-1/4" longer. If that fits it's about the biggest 6V there is. Some of the newer tractors, 706, 806, took a group 3 battery that I hear is hard to find recently. There is a group 2E battery that is same height but twice as long and half as wide so really not room for more plates or acid.
Much more development work being done to 12V batterys than 6v. Thinner plastic cases, better sealing around the posts, and better circulation of acid around the plates, plus 12V available in larger physical sizes too, more acid and lead. A group 65 is used in most Ford pickups, my '96 F250 diesel used two of them 850-875 CCA each. Two Sears Diehard Gold batteries spun over a 444 cubic inch diesel after running 8 glow plugs for almost a minute and spun the engine over fast enough to start twice a day at 5 below zero for a week with no block heater this past winter. The batteries were over 2 years old, maybe closer to 3. I have one of the same battery in my Super H and it starts great! The last 12V Die Hard Gold in it lasted 20 years. Ground cable unhooked any time the engine isn't running for more than a few minutes. Never used a trickle charger.

If your M is a museum piece or a parade tractor you wouldn't mind having to pull start before the parade keep your generator and 6V battery. When I stop and think of ALL the miles I've driven, couple Million miles, I've only had 7-8 alternators fail on me. Considering some of the pieces of junk some of the trucks were, that's a REALLY low number. So don't mind me using a 12V alternator and battery in all my stuff. Wish I could use an alternator on a K-series Kohler in a couple old 51 to 54 year old Cub Cadets. I went thru a spell 25 years ago where the voltage regulators on them failed just like clockwork every two years. I moved them away from the engine with all the heat and vibration and no more problems. They used to be $40, now are over $100. So good thing!
 
So I went and bought a 6 volt group 2 battery which was only 675 cca witch surprised me because the group one was 700. So I now have the starter being looked at and he will let me know. It benched test ok but he?s going to look inside. He did mention to me that the M and super M do like the 12 volts. Will have to wait and see. As for the brakes hope to be able look at this weekend. I?m almost positive these were new bands that I put on new and could not get them adjusted. It?s like there the wrong ones or I?m missing something. If I do need to buy new ones where is a good place to get them from.
 
If this is a tractor you use and start in cold weather change to 12 volt I fought the 6 volt on my super H and finally decided when batt went bad to switch. Best move I have made on having a dependable starting tractor.
 
What type of battery cables do you have and are ALL the connections clean. If you have 12 volt style cables, skinny little things, that's just not going to work. All my 6 volt tractors have 2/0 cables and they all spin over fast. I had an M years ago. Had the same problem. I replaced all the 12 volt cables that were on it when I bought it with 2/0 cables. Night and day difference. I have also seen it where the contacts in the starter switch were burned bad. That can cause a lack of a good connection resulting in slow cranking.
 
The shop called last night said that starter was rubbing on the armature. He said it will make a difference but just how much will found out later today. I?m using 2/0 cables already and hope to pickup a better starter switch today when I get the starter.
 
Okay FINALLY got this figured out after four batteries and two switches. Well remember the starter benched tested okay and I even taken to the shop and he repaired the unit from dragging. Well all said and done the starter fields where shorted out. It was fine bench testing but when it was mounted it shorted out and would not crank but burned out the switch. The shop was closed on Saturday so I discovered this on my own.
Now for the brakes Very unusual fine as well. One of the brake band leaver factor welds where broken and made the shaft turn so there was no more adjustment even with new brakes. So for now my last battery was an 8 volt and that?s what I?m staying with for now. Scared to push my luck !
 
Does your M have a magneto? If so, I'd definitely switch to 12 volts since your charging and ignition are separate. On my M, I switched to 1-wire alternator and use 12v starter solenoid and push button switch. It's a nice practical set-up and I've had no problems. Prior to that I had the foot activated switch on the tractor, but those did not hold up well.
 

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