I think she might be a tad worn...

kopeck · Jun 2, 2019

My SM started to act funny, it just didn't idle well which is always had. I threw the timing light on it and noticed it was running full advanced at idle.

I figured a broken spring or something like that, this is what I found:

The weights also had groves worn in the face of them as well. I have no idea why it ran so well before, it was a big old mess in there.

Replacement parts from CIH are really pricey, I think I'm going to have to look for a used unit though there some some risk there. The one thing is this distributor has a 22L plate. The PO said the engine had been rebuilt a number of years ago by the guy he got it from and it had more HP now, I'm guessing the distributor was modified at the same time. Not sure how easy it will be to find another 22L or at least a 25L.

K

pete 23 · Jun 2, 2019

Pretty typical wear on those distributors and 22 degree is for fire crater pistons. You might find
wear also in the drive gears and if live pump, the driver on rear of pump. Any looseness in drive
of distributor really shortens the life of weights, pivots, springs etc. Makes timing jump around
also.

kopeck · Jun 2, 2019

(quoted from post at 18:59:25 06/02/19) Pretty typical wear on those distributors and 22 degree is for fire crater pistons. You might find
wear also in the drive gears and if live pump, the driver on rear of pump. Any looseness in drive
of distributor really shortens the life of weights, pivots, springs etc. Makes timing jump around
also.

Yeah, I've always figured it has fire craters in there. It was a tillage tractor, spent its working life in potato fields.

I've been into a couple of these distributors and never seen one worn this bad but I'll take your word that it's not uncommon. The timing was bouncing around at idle.

Does anyone know what the part number for the 22L shaft/plate is?

K

kopeck · Jun 3, 2019

I did a little digging.

Bates has the shaft/plate, PN 374856R91. They say call for price so I'm guessing it's going to be expensive. I would still need weights and springs too.

Bates also has a reman 25 deg distributor for $250. I'm thinking I might go that route. I would prefer to have the 22 deg advance but I can't imagine 3 deg is going to make a huge difference.

I also don't think I can fix my current distributor for less than $250 dollars. Shaft & Plate, weights are going to run me at least $200. I'm sending an email to my CIH guy to double check.

I wonder if those pins are just pressed in. I do own a lathe. Pretty fine work though.

K

D Slater · Jun 3, 2019

Cost of a shaft was over 300 at dealer last time I checked. Weights around 100 each. Shaft # 363723R91 for 22 degree. Can't remember for sure without checking but shaft 374856R91 was supposed to come with springs and maybe the weights. Think 374856R91 came in the fire crater package and was just shaft and springs though. Sometimes the pins can be found loose in the plate but good otherwise. If so I carefully spot weld on the bottom of pin and smooth. Don't know why you couldn't replace the pins if you can turn them out. Weight holes can be filled and drilled, best to have a new weight as a pattern if worn like picture. Another option is get a new replacement distributor and change the hole size in it to a 22. Most new ones sold cover so many tractors so that probably not 22 degree ones.

kopeck · Jun 3, 2019

Thanks D Slater.

I figured it was going to be expensive. What I might do is get a reconditioned one (25 degree if I can't find a 22) and keep the 22L shaft with the idea I can always try to turn some new pins.

I thought about trying to fill and drill the weights, they have some pretty significant grooves in the face to go with oblong holes. Might be worth a try I suppose.

Thanks again,

K

pete 23 · Jun 3, 2019

Hard to figure why someone like Bates doesn't have some one make a jig to put a bushing in
those worn out weights and supply new pins and springs. I think they could sell a ton of them
because almost all of those distributors have a certain amount of wear and same weights used for
over twenty years.

Some years ago, after retirement from punching the clock, working on my own, I ordered a used
distributor from a salvage yard up the road a 100 miles or so. It was for a customers tractor I
was going through. I told yard owner, I would take it all apart and make sure it was in good
condition when I got it. He says, oh no, don't do that , you will ruin it. Told him I had been
taking them apart for 40 years and didn't think I would hurt it. Don't think he believed me.

I also bought some bull gears for my own H a few years later. First one he brought out looked
like new, but, then he had to pull a bunch to find one that wasn't in worse shape than the ones I
was replacing. They didn't throw many used parts away.

kopeck · Jun 3, 2019

(quoted from post at 11:26:36 06/03/19) Hard to figure why someone like Bates doesn't have some one make a jig to put a bushing in
those worn out weights and supply new pins and springs. I think they could sell a ton of them
because almost all of those distributors have a certain amount of wear and same weights used for
over twenty years.

Some years ago, after retirement from punching the clock, working on my own, I ordered a used
distributor from a salvage yard up the road a 100 miles or so. It was for a customers tractor I
was going through. I told yard owner, I would take it all apart and make sure it was in good
condition when I got it. He says, oh no, don't do that , you will ruin it. Told him I had been
taking them apart for 40 years and didn't think I would hurt it. Don't think he believed me.

I also bought some bull gears for my own H a few years later. First one he brought out looked
like new, but, then he had to pull a bunch to find one that wasn't in worse shape than the ones I
was replacing. They didn't throw many used parts away.

Honestly, when I first took the thing apart I thought the pins at the very least would be available. They look like they're pressed in, I need to take closer look tonight.

The weights might be a bit more tricky. One doesn't have a ton of meat left. You might be able to braze it up, I don't think welding it would work well.

I've contacted a seller on eBay that also rebuilds them. He said I had my choice of timing advances. I asked if he had a 22 degree, I haven't heard back but if he doesn't I'm going to get a 25 and go from there. The nice thing is no core charge unlike Bates.

Used stuff is a crap shoot for sure. I've made out well and I've bought junk...

K

kopeck · Jun 5, 2019

Just thought I would follow up with my solution.

The fellow on eBay that sells rebuilt units had the parts on hand to make me a 22 degree advanced distributor. He seems to have good feed back and was good about answering my questions.

I my case I think it's a no brainer, I usually like to fix things my self but the parts alone from CIH would have been more than the rebuilt unit.

As far as making new pins for the plate, I think it can be done. The more I look at it the more I think the pins have a shoulder and are peaned over on the bottom. I need to grind one off to see, since the shaft/plate is redundant now I have nothing to loose. A good rainy day project.

I think it's amazing how forgiving these engines are. Hope to get the SM back in service soon.

K

I think she might be a tad worn...

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