IH 444 clutch worn out?

Can't get the clutch to fully disengage on my Dad's 444.

I took the inspection plate off and it looks like a dual clutch to me. I have to stand on the clutch all the way for the PTO to stop. If I put the tractor in gear with the clutch depressed, it starts to move without releasing the clutch.

I measured the gap on the clutch adjustment, I got .062" on all 3 bolts.

Maybe the videos will help diagnose:

Pedal operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzOznYvgcJo

Pedal depressed when cranking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayZP74npqM4

Tractor creeping when pedal fully depressed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOD5FAeCqmY

I am assuming the clutch disc I can see form the bottom is the PTO clutch, the trans clutch is buried further towards the flywheel?

Also, I readjusted the free play so that from the first vid, the fingers are not always in contact with the throw-out bearing, didn't make any difference.

What does it mean when a clutch won't fully disengage?

I pretty much have to split this thing correct?

With free play adjusted, there are 4 things that can cause the issue. A warped clutch disk, a dragging pilot bearing, or pivot wear in the
pressure plate finger pivots. When the clutch pedal is pushed down by hand, the first resistance you encounter should be at about an inch or an
inch and a half down. This is the intended freeplay that then starts to pull back on the friction plate of the pressure plate. if the pivots are
worn, the fingers move in a long ways taking up the wear. if they move dramatically, they take up pedal throw and the clutch never releases all
the way. if this is the case, and with the adjustment you made on the finger gap is OK, the pedal will go down at or more than 1/2 way by hand
before finding resistance. A temporary solution is to let the throwout bearing touch the fingers, and adjust the pedal so the pressure starts at
about 1-1/2 inches down. This will work till you decide to make it right, or it will fail as the bearing wears out (it could take a while, or
???. The pilot bearing is less likely, but happens. A split is needed to fix that. A warped disk is pretty common and allows the edge of the
disk to drag on the Pressure plate, or flywheel all the time. Over heated clutch components can cause this. A forth is a new disk in a system
that binds on the splines and doesn't move well to the released position and rubs on the FW. Good luck, Jim

(quoted from post at 16:28:56 05/19/19) A temporary solution is to let the throwout bearing touch the fingers, and adjust the pedal so the pressure starts at
about 1-1/2 inches down. This will work till you decide to make it right, or it will fail as the bearing wears out (it could take a while,

Click to expand...

I pretty much already had it this way, and with the pedal fully depressed, and not bottoming out on the foot rest, the clutch still does not fully disengage.

My Dad at one point had the clutch frozen to the flywheel, I'm not sure what he did to unstick the clutch, but I have been told that's when pressure plates tend to get warped...

It's too unsafe for him to use it like this.

I just wanted to make sure I exhausted all adjusting options before splitting.

I mean clutch disc's get warped form stuck clutches. It seems like that's what it is, a slight drag by a warped clutch disc and the tractor creeping with pedal fully depressed.

Hi try turning the pressure plate finger adjusting bolt 1/4 turn inward. Reason the head of the bolt wears a groove in the finger and bolt and turning the bolt 1/4 turn takes the bolt head out of the groove.

(quoted from post at 09:32:59 05/20/19) Hi try turning the pressure plate finger adjusting bolt 1/4 turn inward. Reason the head of the bolt wears a groove in the finger and bolt and turning the bolt 1/4 turn takes the bolt head out of the groove.

Click to expand...

Not exactly which bolts you're referring to, see this picture:
https://imgur.com/VFgGn3U

I am assuming "Bolt A".

Yes, bolt "A" with the slotted head.

You can shift without grinding, though, and you REALLY had to work to get it to "creep." Multiple clutch pedal presses and revving up the engine.

That means the clutch itself is releasing. If the clutch were not releasing there is no way on earth you would be able to slip the tractor into gear that easily. You'd have to shut the engine off or slam it into gear. Otherwise it would just grind.

So, the issue is something minor like a slightly warped clutch disc or a sticky pilot bearing.

This is one of those, "Doc, it hurts when I go like this," situations.

I would run it. Whatever's sticking is either going to work itself loose or get worse. If it gets worse, then spend a whole bunch of time and money tearing the tractor down to fix it.

(quoted from post at 04:27:36 05/21/19) You can shift without grinding, though, and you REALLY had to work to get it to "creep." Multiple clutch pedal presses and revving up the engine.

That means the clutch itself is releasing. If the clutch were not releasing there is no way on earth you would be able to slip the tractor into gear that easily. You'd have to shut the engine off or slam it into gear. Otherwise it would just grind.

So, the issue is something minor like a slightly warped clutch disc or a sticky pilot bearing.

This is one of those, "Doc, it hurts when I go like this," situations.

I would run it. Whatever's sticking is either going to work itself loose or get worse. If it gets worse, then spend a whole bunch of time and money tearing the tractor down to fix it.

Click to expand...

If it was mine I would agree. However, this is my Fathers tractor, he's 86, recovering from a stroke so he forgets things. Trying to make it as safe as possible. We don't really want him operating stuff like this, but one the one hand, he's 86, let him do what he wants etc.

The biggest problem for my father when operating is it is hard to shift out of gear due to the slight drag from the presumed warped disc. I can shift it just fine, but my dad struggles.

So I was able to turn the finger bolts 1/4 turn, then re-adjusted free-play. The condition has improved. It still grinds when shifting and is a bit hard to get out of gear, but it is actually better. Once you get it in gear it lurches just a very small amount, I can then stomp on the gas and it goes nowhere. So there is still a slight clutch disc drag, but it is better.

Can I keep adjusting those finger bolts in to see if I can completely remove the issue?