IH 444 single or dual clutch?

ETD66SS

Member
My father owns a GAS IH 444 with an IH 2000 loader.

He says the clutch is bad, and he wants me to change it, sigh... First off, how do I diagnose if the clutch is bad? Secondly, how do I identify if the tractor has a single or dual clutch?

I worked on the hydraulics a few years back, here are some pic's, maybe it will help with trans identification: https://imgur.com/a/nH7uh
 
(quoted from post at 13:01:33 05/07/19)
Should have a two stage clutch (double...one for transmission, on for PTO)

Thanks. When I look in the parts book online, it reads that it could be either singe or dual clutch. Just want to make sure...
 
(quoted from post at 21:11:51 05/07/19)
(quoted from post at 13:01:33 05/07/19)
Should have a two stage clutch (double...one for transmission, on for PTO)

Thanks. When I look in the parts book online, it reads that it could be either singe or dual clutch. Just want to make sure...

I would split the tractor and see what you need for parts. I get my clutch parts from Hy-Capacity and I can get them overnight. That way you know what you have.

Here are a few pictures of a splitting stand that I have designed and sell for these small frame tractors. This stand works good and makes a clutch job much safer.
mvphoto35778.jpg


mvphoto35779.jpg
 
If it was an industrial 444 it could have a single stage clutch. To determine, the transmission should stop when clutch is depressed half way to foot rest,
PTO should continue to run, clutch all the way to foot rest will stop both transmission and PTO.

Two stage clutch requires special installation procedures to preadjust clutches before installing in tractor.
 
(quoted from post at 16:17:40 05/07/19) If it was an industrial 444 it could have a single stage clutch. To determine, the transmission should stop when clutch is depressed half way to foot rest,
PTO should continue to run, clutch all the way to foot rest will stop both transmission and PTO.

Two stage clutch requires special installation procedures to preadjust clutches before installing in tractor.

Thanks. So how do I actually determine if the clutch is bad? My Dad says it's hard to shift without grinding gears. I have the same issue in my Ford 4610, always assumed it was a worn clutch, tried to adjust pedal, but didn't help. I've used tractors all my life but never really diagnosed a clutch that is "bad".
 

I should also add, this tractor's clutch was frozen to the flywheel a few years back, my Dad freed it up, not sure how he did so. Maybe that points towards the root cause? I know I should probably just split the tractor to see what's up, but I don't have a ton of free time and want to make sure I'm not doing any unnecessary work.
 
On these old dry clutches, pretty much the only adjustment you have is clutch pedal free play. If that doesn't help, then you're splitting the tractor regardless, and while you're in there you'd be a fool not to replace the clutch, so saying "bad clutch" is a good catch-all for the condition.

Grinding means not releasing, which could be a bad throwout bearing or failed/worn pressure plate fingers. Or it could be something in the friction disc has failed. Regardless the tractor has to be split and again it would be foolish to not replace everything (unless it has recently been replaced and you are going in for a different reason).
 
Hi usually a worn clutch slips when tractor is under a heavy load, like going up a steep hill on a road in 4th High range. You can test the clutch by driving tractor in 2nd or 3rd High and applying the
brakes to see if the engine starts to stall out or if the tractor slows down but engine RPM stays up then clutch is slipping.

Given the history you said about the clutch had been frozen at one time and your Dad had freed it up, this happen to tractor that are not used frequently, best practice is to block the clutch down between
usages but then you have to lock the parking brake and then the brake disk can seize to the drums, so best to chock the rear wheels.

Other issues that can cause clutch not to release properly:
1) Clutch pedal adjustment
2) Worn pressure plate fingers
3) Clutch disk was warped when it was stuck to the flywheel and then freed.

IIRC proper clutch pedal adjustment is 7" from foot rest to top of pedal, and then 3/4" free travel.

You can inspect pressure plate fingers by removing a plate on bottom of clutch housing.

Two stage clutches are more difficult to install than single stage.

There is a Youtube video for IH B414 on installing a two stage clutch. The 444 uses same clutch as B414.
 

Thanks for all the good info Jim, I'll try the pedal adjustment and the inspection this weekend. I'm sure as others have said, the 444 really needs to be split, as does my 4610, someday...
 
(quoted from post at 05:59:54 05/08/19) Hi usually a worn clutch slips when tractor is under a heavy load, like going up a steep hill on a road in 4th High range. You can test the clutch by driving tractor in 2nd or 3rd High and applying the
brakes to see if the engine starts to stall out or if the tractor slows down but engine RPM stays up then clutch is slipping.

Given the history you said about the clutch had been frozen at one time and your Dad had freed it up, this happen to tractor that are not used frequently, best practice is to block the clutch down between
usages but then you have to lock the parking brake and then the brake disk can seize to the drums, so best to chock the rear wheels.

Other issues that can cause clutch not to release properly:
1) Clutch pedal adjustment
2) Worn pressure plate fingers
3) Clutch disk was warped when it was stuck to the flywheel and then freed.

IIRC proper clutch pedal adjustment is 7" from foot rest to top of pedal, and then 3/4" free travel.

You can inspect pressure plate fingers by removing a plate on bottom of clutch housing.

Two stage clutches are more difficult to install than single stage.

There is a Youtube video for IH B414 on installing a two stage clutch. The 444 uses same clutch as B414.

So I checked the pedal measurements you gave me.

The pedal is only 4.75" from the foot rest and there is about 1.25" of free travel. Feels like the pedal is hitting the foot rest before the clutch is fully disengaged. I'll try to loosen the clamp on the pedal and adjust upwards.
 
So here is what I am dealing with, looks a bit different than the pictures shown above:

https://imgur.com/AEYETWl

I can only get the pedal 6" off the foot rest due to a bracket for some kind of switch, it uses a nut on the set screw for pedal adjust, not allowing me to go to 7" If I took the bracket off I could probably get to 7", but then that switch would not work.

I adjusted the pedal up as far as I could per the instructions shown. (6")

After the adjustment the pedal has "stiff feeling free play" of about 1.5" that doesn't disengage the trans clutch or the PTO. I have to push the pedal all the way down to disengage the trans and the PTO.

Tractor seems to shift fine to me. If I let the clutch out while in neutral and then push the pedal back down, I have to wait about 6 seconds before shifting into first without grinding, higher gears I need to wait longer.

This doesn't feel like a 2 stage clutch but I know it's supposed to be?
 
Hi, that is the clutch safety switch that only allows starter to engage if clutch is depressed.
Another method to test for 2 stage clutch, engage PTO, put tractor in 2nd Low and drive forward up a small slope, stop and still in 2nd gear with clutch depressed to foot rest using the brakes let the tractor
slowly roll backup down the slope, if the PTO turns in the opposite direction then it is a single stage clutch.
Re gear grinding, that sounds about normal, that tractor has no synchro mesh in the transmission. Originally B414, 434 had 90 wt gear oil in transmission and differential and it acted as a gear brake but later
IH changed to HYtran hydraulic fluid and has less viscosity therefore doesn't supply the same drag on the transmission gears. Hytran was much better in -20F winter months for shifting.

JimB
 
(quoted from post at 15:13:33 05/09/19) Hi, that is the clutch safety switch that only allows starter to engage if clutch is depressed.
Another method to test for 2 stage clutch, engage PTO, put tractor in 2nd Low and drive forward up a small slope, stop and still in 2nd gear with clutch depressed to foot rest using the brakes let the tractor
slowly roll backup down the slope, if the PTO turns in the opposite direction then it is a single stage clutch.
Re gear grinding, that sounds about normal, that tractor has no synchro mesh in the transmission. Originally B414, 434 had 90 wt gear oil in transmission and differential and it acted as a gear brake but later
IH changed to HYtran hydraulic fluid and has less viscosity therefore doesn't supply the same drag on the transmission gears. Hytran was much better in -20F winter months for shifting.

JimB

I figured that was a safety switch for the starter, thanks.

I guess I'm going to say there is nothing major wrong with this clutch, maybe the 1.5" of travel means that it is pretty worn, but it still works.

I have to say, I do hear the throw-out bearing a bit, nothing terrible like grinding, but it does make a sound.

The tractor is lucky to see 10 hrs a year, so I think all is well for now.

Thanks to all for all the guidance.
 
One more problem I am having, with the clutch pedal.

This is what my dad's setup looks like: https://imgur.com/AEYETWl

This is a picture I found on Tractor House: https://imgur.com/C69zhxo

My Dad's has the spring going to the wrong location and it crosses the safety switch. I cannot find where to attach the spring under the gas tank like shown in the second picture.

Also, my Dad's has a bracket mounted to the clutch pedal to activate the safety switch, not allowing the full 7". It looks like someone modified the setup on my Dad's tractor, and I have no idea why they would have added that sheet metal bracket for the safety switch and then locate the spring incorrectly.

I am missing item 33 shown here: https://partstore.caseih.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr52525ar1273565bi961537-9

Can someone with a 444 take a picture and show me how the spring is supposed to mount up?
 
I thought I had the clutch pedal all fixed, however today when I tested out the tractor again for a loader hydraulics issue, I noticed that the shifter was hard to get out of gear. I noticed in gear the tractor creeps even when the clutch pedal is depressed fully.

I'm confused about the starting dimension for the clutch pedal. On these forums I was told 7", but today I received my operators manual and it states the pedal to foot rest dimension is 5.75", much closer to the 4.75" I started with. The operators manual I have is for a 2444 or 2444 Lo Boy. Is the AG 444 really that different in terms of the clutch pedal height?
 

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