Hard Startn' Gassers

Wicksfield · Mar 20, 2019

I've heard that if you have a hard starting gas tractor especially in cold weather, retard the timing a bit. You guys know anything about this? If there's something to it, retard by how much....5, 10, 12 deg's?

Janicholson · Mar 20, 2019

I do not recommend that idea. If the timing is at OEM specification, retarding it will not improve starting. Hard starting causes:
1} weak battery
2} small "car" battery cables
3} Bad cable connections
4) fuel fouled/carbon fouled spark plugs
5} old gasoline
6} Dragging starter motor (bad bushings)
7) failing coil
8} manifold air leak
9} Choke that does not close correctly
10} Ignition resistor bypass circuit on some not functioning
11} bad coil /plug wires
12} moisture in the cap

Jim's basic list

rustred · Mar 20, 2019

no such thing. why did the engineers spend piles of money to come up with specifications? when I was in class my instructor told us..." when I set everything to factory spec they run pretty darn good" always remembered that statement from over forty years ago. plus your degree's are way out to lunch. start with 1 or 2 degree's either way when experimenting. im referring to a factory unit, not something reworked. jim has the list.

pete 23 · Mar 20, 2019

I will add oil viscosity to the list of hard start in cold weather. It used to be the trick of chokeing a tractor off in really cold weather. This diluted the oil in the cylinders to make them turn over easier.

BarnyardEngineering · Mar 21, 2019

Yeah, there's no one "magic" thing you can do to make a tractor that's hard to start in cold easy to start.

I mean, if the timing's advanced, then yeah, retarding it back to factory specifications will probably help a lot.

One thing not mentioned above is TECHNIQUE. In this day and age of electronic fuel injection, people think they can just jump up in the seat and grind away with the starter, and their carbureted tractor will start. Most times in the winter you need to use the choke, and it's not just a "set it and forget it" thing all the time. Some tractors need full choke until they're running, but on many tractors that will flood the engine. It's a matter of figuring out what the tractor needs to start.

D beatty · Mar 21, 2019

Put a block heater on it.

rustyfarmall · Mar 21, 2019

A weak 6 volt battery will sometimes still get the job done if the timing is backed off a little, but then the tractor will not have the power to get the job done.

Russ from MN · Mar 21, 2019

That was true with my first pickup, a 46 Dodge. if you time it to where it sounded the best it wouldn't start so good, retard it a little and it would pop right of.

F-Dean · Mar 21, 2019

On my old tractors, especially the hand-crank ones, I retard the spark (at the magneto) by about 15-20 degrees.
I always do this because it makes them easier to start and it reduces the chances of a "Kickback."

connor9988 · Mar 21, 2019

No one has mentioned taking off the carburetor and cleaning it and replacing worn and loose parts. With a clean and tuned up carb tractors start and run good. It?s quite amazing the difference it can make. Also, one you have your clean carb put back on the tractor set aside a little time to get it adjusted right for the season you are working in.

rustred · Mar 21, 2019

ya, but where was the timing set in the first place, are you retarding it due to it being advanced too much?? I strongly believe you will not improve things from factory setting. need to give actual spec's at where you have it set at. every engine has a spec and timing by ear is not it.

rustred · Mar 21, 2019

and again this is not a factory setting... don't count.

rustred · Mar 21, 2019

I was talking about a tuned up engine which would have a clean carb and factory settings. so getting cold and retarding the timing is nonsense.

F-Dean · Mar 21, 2019

On the F-Series tractors, you adjust the timing by the best pair of holes that give you the best "Performance."
Failure to retard the spark when starting can result in a broken arm!

rustred · Mar 21, 2019

yes I know all that. but it is not a guessing game there still is factory procedure.

rustyfarmall · Mar 22, 2019

Timing by ear--set it so you get good response when you pull the throttle back, and then retard it just enough so the rain cap on the muffler doesn't flutter.

mccormicksw4 · Mar 22, 2019

(quoted from post at 06:22:16 03/22/19)
Timing by ear--set it so you get good response when you pull the throttle back, and then retard it just enough so the rain cap on the muffler doesn't flutter.

There is not many that can set by ear and those who can know better IMHO.
Go ahead and do it and then check it with a timing light......I bet its wrong :|

John M · Mar 22, 2019

Yes, there is a factory procedure/setting for timing an F series, and other with an F4 magneto, to operate at maximum efficiency, or whatever you want to call it. But there is also an adjustment that can be made to retard the spark on the magneto. Its the points cover and internals behind it (Not real sure what to call it off the top of my head) and moves to retard spark to prevent kickback when starting with a hand crank. This is also the shut off function of the tractor. One way is full advance, the exact degree escapes me, and full retard grounds out the points and shuts the tractor down. I still have a doctors bill where I didnt retard it once and severely broke my wrist and 3 fingers. Since the OP didnt mention which mag he has, there no way of knowing for sure if what he is talking about is an H4 or F4 or something else, but I do agree retarding an H4 will do no good.

rustred · Mar 22, 2019

rustred · Mar 22, 2019

yes, and it will be advanced too much. not many go through the proper procedure to set things the way the tractor came from the factory! how did they get any work done if they were scared to crank the tractor!???

David G · Mar 23, 2019

I would not mess with the timing, my bet is weak spark or choke not closing all the way.

Donald in MN · Mar 23, 2019

I'm going to say leave the timimg alone local tractor club found out the gas is what causes the most trouble it seems the gas burns to fast and doesnt push the pistons far enough. the hand start tractors were really hard to start they put diesel and 2 cycle oil in the gas to slow the flash so it burns longer. FIl worked in a gas station after ww2 he use to put marvel mystery oil in the crankcase of his tractors and cars. he said it thins the oil. those old tractors only used straight weight oil. i replace 1 quart of engine oil with marvel mystery oil in the winter and also use it in the gas. started my oliver 77 a couple days ago been sitting under a snow drift for over a month fired right up.started my JD B a couple days ago been sitting since november. turned over quite a few times but did start.

mccormicksw4 · Mar 24, 2019

the first thing I would check if the tractor used to start well would be the points. worn or dirty/oily points will make a good starting tractor tough to start

mattofvinings · Mar 24, 2019

My take on it is that the energy to jump the spark gap increases with the cylinder pressure.

You couple a 6v battery, a spark energy that's far, far behind that of a modern gasoline car or truck, and a carburetor that can only deliver so much overfueling into a cold metal manifold that inherently wants to condense all of the vapor back into liquid and its a recipe for hard starting. (today's fuel injection vehicles run "dry" manifolds and fuel is delivered behind the valve or direct inject into the chamber ala diesel)

Retarding the spark timing reduces the cylinder pressure incrementally at the time when the spark fires and so its more reliable probability that the spark will jump the gap in the combustion chamber and not find another path of less resistance to discharge. I would make marks at "normal" at 5 deg and 10 deg of retard and see what happens. If you don't have a degree wheel mark the other marks approx 1/16" on the OD of the distributor flange that gets clamped to the stationary pinion drive housing on the engine.

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