wheel position on axles

A while back I posted a picture of my M with a new paint job. This tractor had the wheels all the way out on the axle and dished in. Someone commented that it would decrease bearing wear if the wheels were dished out and slid in. If the wheels were dished out on the axle they would be in the same position but slid in on the axle several inches. Do you think all the way out dished in causes more bearing wear, because of cantilever force? Do you think that the tractors were designed to be used in any position and it doesn't really matter? Is this one of these questions like what is the best engine oil? Is there a technical answer and a real world answer? Thanks for posting, Ellis
 
its a farmall row crop tractor.so the rear wheels can be installed either way to suit the job being done, as im sure ihc thought this out to give maximun benefit to the farmer. don't think it has much effect on the brgs. either way.
 
From the bearing's perspective it makes no difference which way the wheel is dished - the only thing that matters is the horizontal distance out to where the tire contacts the ground. How that distance is achieved is irrelevant to the load calculation.
 
Clamping the wheel dished in or out at the end of the axle bar increases the load the outer axle bearing sees. Even worse when the wheel is dished out and a mounted corn picker attached.

I've been around IH letter series tractors roughly 60 years and rear wheels have always been dished out and slid in as close to the axle carrier as possible.
 
Dad's H has had the cast centers dished in with them at the end of the axles since it was new . Never changed an axle in it. Our MD has had them the same way dished in at the end of the axles for over 40 years with no axle or bearing problems in either of them. The dish does compensate for some of the length of the axle with the counter weight since the center of the tire would be inside of the casting.
 
If you choose to look at where the vertical load is applied to the axle shaft then you must also factor in the moment that the offset wheel is generating. With the wheel dished in this moment works opposite to the vertical load so in the end the calculated bearing load is the same as if you had just used the horizontal distance and disregarded the wheel backspacing. It works the same way with the wheels dished out but the moment adds to the vertical load.
 
I have M with a cracked axle housing, on the underside. Make no sense as it is U shaped. But more of the flake type. Meaning if i took a putty knife and tapped underneath a chunk would pop off. Made me wonder if it had a picker on at one point. Looks to have been there long time. BEeen meaning to ask you because you have mentioned pickers before.
 
If a person or two stands an M tire vertical and holds it there by hand, then lets go, it will fall toward the side away from the "dish" unless it has 3 or 4 weight sets on the inside. This fairly small amount of difference is all the difference in load on the axle. How far the contact patch of the tire on the ground is from the tractor centerline is the bending moment applied to the axle shaft. if dished in, and slid in there could be slight force bending down on the axle!!. If dished out and moved out there is way more stress. M axles have broken with pickers and rough frozen ground. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 23:35:45 02/03/19) Dad's H has had the cast centers dished in with them at the end of the axles since it was new . Never changed an axle in it. Our MD has had them the same way dished in at the end of the axles for over 40 years with no axle or bearing problems in either of them. The dish does compensate for some of the length of the axle with the counter weight since the center of the tire would be inside of the casting.

Could you please post a pic of either of these? I'm curious how they look.

Thanks,
Dan
 
You can also safely say that if you find worn/bad axle bearings, that it is more caused by 80 years of use and abuse, not from having the wheels dished a certain way and/or located in a certain spot on the axle.
 
(quoted from post at 11:03:10 02/03/19) its a farmall row crop tractor.so the rear wheels can be installed either way to suit the job being done, as im sure ihc thought this out to give maximun benefit to the farmer. don't think it has much effect on the brgs. either way.

Agreed. The Farmall H was designed to hold up to ANY wheel spacing. The bearings are stout enough that they don't care. Lots of Hs were used with a 2 row, mounted ear corn picker. Those things were heavy, and required that the rear wheels be dished out, and slid all the way to the end of the axles.
 
WOW, very possible it's from carrying a mounted picker. Before we mounted the drive gearbox on our 2 M-E picker, and the wagon elevator, we could look up under the husking bed and I swear the axle bars were bending from the load. And the 2M-H and 2 M-HD were even heavier than the 2M and 2 M-E.

I would agree with you that is from carrying a picker. We always heard of someone breaking an axle picking corn, but I never actually saw one, but what I understand is the axle bar broke inside the axle carrier, so both axle carrier and axle shaft were replaced, in a corn field, with the picker on the tractor, most likely in a grass waterway that was rough and caused the axle to break.

I always thought a 706 or 806, or a Hydro 100 would have been a great picker tractor, 3-1/4" diameter axles vs 2-3/4" on an M, SM, 400,450,560,656,666,686, even 300,350,460 with heavy duty rear axles.
 
No expert on design but think anytime the axle clamp is moved out from close to axle housing there will be more load on the bearings. When tractor is pulling a load the frame wants to go back and wheels move forward. The greater distance out the more leverage exerted to the bearings. Not counting weight of tractor or bull gear trying to force axle down and back under load.
 

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