504U_D188: Per PO = spewing out green coolant from exhaust

amsinator

Member
Having recently acquired a 504 utility w/ D188 due to exhaust "spewing out green coolant" after trying to start by past owner when tractor sat through the "Record Term (2 weeks) of below freezing temps of 17F-25 F degrees F" last January 2018. Since that time PO also found dipstick tube filled to top with what looks like water, which I assume is coolant.

Tractor has only cost me the time/gas to trailer to my shop. I am in process of tearing down to determine failure and value, before I get past point of no return.

It is understood the importance of anti-freeze protection levels. I can only assume, it had antifreeze in tractor by spewing out distinguishable green coolant, but freeze protection is unknown/mute point for now.

Does the D188 have a reputation of pushing out water jacket (freeze plugs) in certain areas, such as under valve cover gasket?

I am thinking head gasket let go, since coolant was blown out exhaust upon last cranking attempt and filling crankcase with coolant/water by visual inspection. Trying to work on it Today, but presently 25 degree F, lots of layers to be able to work outside.

Tractor got quick sand blast and paint job, BEFORE I acquired it.
Nothing spectacular. I do understand this could also be a pig w/ lipstick.

Thank You for any thoughts or experiences w/ this model.

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For free, it is marvelous. If no shop/garage, spring is coming so tarp it down and wait, or find a place to put it.
A complete teardown (in frame) will tell the story of how much it will take to make it well. If $3000, it is still
a good utility tractor with all modern functionality and will be better than that money spent on a new lawn tractor
by a factor of 5. One gripe I have with the reluctance to put time in a machine is its resale numbers. If the
reason for ownership is resale, no doubt it is a place to throw money. if it is to use, it is very cheap high value
equipment. Jim
 
To the best of my knowledge, I would say no.
How do I tell?
There is a lever to the left side by seat, that seems to be linked to the PTO output housing?
There is not a lever in front on left side, if that is the normal TA operation location?

More Pics. Decided to remove head. #2 Cylinder fire ring broken, but #1 and #3 cylinders were rusted the worse of the four.
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:shock:
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lets see the head. are u sure the coolant wasn't poured down the exhaust pipe instead of rad? that fire ring wont do that. something had to freeze and broke there. you got a cat in the bag there.
 
Yeah, I agree with the "must have poured coolant down the exhaust", cause it sure looks like that?
I hope to evaluate the head much closer today at school.
I thought I took picture of it, but will today.

I know this does not tell the story, but visually, other than rust around valve margins to head seat area, I do not see crack, yet.
I am [u:0371b4c8ac]assuming[/u:0371b4c8ac] with, every Exhaust port filled with ICE from H2O & weak coolant mixture, the head may be cracked from exhaust port sides,[u:0371b4c8ac] assuming [/u:0371b4c8ac] AND more than one crack?

The fire ring cracked, would create compression sealing issues, until it errodes into the coolant passage opening close by it, pressurizing coolant system = blowing coolant out/overheating.

The liners look to be protruding at least possibly 1/32" maybe as much as 1/16"? Still need to clean up and measure.
#1 & #3 liners very rusted and most likely will not clean up, so that means liners/pistons already.

Exterior of right side of the block has been cracked (prior to PO), welded, braised?, JB?epoxied in some fashion. The PO that offered me the tractor told/explained what he knew of this repair.

So that will the next areas to B-line to for 2nd-3rd phase of evaluations.

It might be more economical to buy used motor that at least is runnng, which could also just be another "Pig in the Poke" to evaluate.

I do understand what I am getting into, Money, Money ,Money to fix properly. We are hoping to use this at our Motocross track to help keep it in ridable condition.

QUESTIONS, IF I may?
1) By being a utility, I assume it would possible run a Front End loader, has 1 lever on RH side of seat?
2) How do I know if this tractor has a TA system, maybe missing the lever?
 
On a tractor with a TA system there will be two throwout shafts on the left side of the section between the bell housing and the transmission. The one closest to the bell housing will have a long adjustable linkage running back to the clutch pedal. That's for the main clutch. There will be a second one a few inches behind it, connected to the main clutch throwout with a short adjustable link. Normally there would be another adjustable link running back to the TA lever.

99.99% of the time, the TA lever is not "just missing." It was removed for a reason, that usually being the low side of the TA is out. These will run practically forever on the high side.

With one remote, you will only be able to run a trip bucket loader. The hard part is finding a decent loader to fit the tractor. Usually the best way to go about it is to find the tractor with the loader already on it.
 
Thank You for the information!
It at least gives me something to look for on this tractor as whether it has TA or not?

Another Question?
1) I assume the pump system on IH 504U, would be able to run a loader better than 1964 MF35?

Thank You :!:
 
I am in process of cleaning/stripping head.
I plan to use the metal dye crack detection process (3 can system) and Magnetic/metal chips inspection methods.

I feel the ice, no doubt has created a bad problem and/or made the weakest link rear it's head. I also understand damage will take place normally at the weakest point, or wherever it freezes the hardest.

In trying to determine root cause:
1) Something let go to completely to fill at least one exhaust port(s) and possibly into cylinder
2) Cranking engine over distributed coolant throughout the exhaust manifold and possibly into other cylinders.
3) It doesn't look visually like a rod bent due to hydraulic lock (admit, Have not measured w/ depth gauge).
4) I have yet emptied crankcase of coolant/oil, in order to clean out and pull pan. For what it's worth, trying to delay corrosion process by not exposing metal to air.
5) Block visual evaluation will be Friday project.

So I am thinking coolant was in cylinder on exhaust stroke which created thread title. What/where it let go in the 14+ day freeze, is now the big question.

I am in process of acquiring repair information.
I assume this engine has dry sleeves?
Hope to post some head picture results this weekend?
 
:shock: Other than top of valve stem-valve guide wear, rust on parts from sitting with coolant filled exhaust ports, rust on valve faces-seats & corrosion from coolant.
I visually see...
1) Poor liner contact around #2 cyl. liner.
2) Poor head gasket sealing between #2 & #3 cylinders.
3) Potential head surface warped between #2 & #3 cylinders?
4) Head Combustion surface areas pitted from improper combustion process?
5) No obvious cracks with visual inspection only.
6) No water jacket plugs (look like all threaded plugs-pipe/gasket sealed?) or that could even think about pushing out, due to hard freeze.
7) Possible poor sealing surface around some of the Coolant head gasket sealing ring areas.
8) injector Pre-combustion chamber ports carboned up, but no obvious sighs of coolant cracks, so far.
I have only gotten as far as stripping head and putty knife, wire brush cleaning.
Mineral spirits tank cleaning and then heated pressure cabinet cleaning next. Then closer crack-head surface inspections.
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OKAY, I think I found the reason the dipstick tube was overflowing with green coolant.
I drained 5 gallons of coolant from engine crankcase Saturday.
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By splitting so much, I assume this engine has wet liners and not dry?
 
The split in the cylinder wall is presently protruding outward and not inward. Multiple freeze cycles from low concentrated antifreeze might have.....
1) Froze in block first which cracked liner
2) Cracked liner allowed water/coolant into #3 Cylinder after thaw
3) Water filled cylinder refroze and ice expanded liner outward
4) As water thawed each time, it seeped into crankcase by piston/liner #3
5) After thaw, PO trying to start, pushed water out of cylinder & also through exhaust manifold filling upright muffler & into other cylinders when starting stopped, thus allowing coolant to fill #1 cylinder mostly filling it, and seeping into #2 w/ exhaust valve off seat...
I am able to turn engine over at crank pulley, but only to the extruding rust on cylinder walls, which seems to stop piston movement.
While I was cleaning rust off of #3 cylinder wall, is when I found split liner.
I have not fully cleaned #1 cylinder rust off yet, it too may be split?
As mentioned in last post, drained 5 gallons coolant out of crankcase Saturday.
There was maybe 1-2 quarts of oil left in crankcase.
So, I am assuming, there was an oil spot under tractor from oil being floated out of dipstick tube while crankcase was being overfilled with the 5 gallons water.

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I am trying to make Heads or Tales out of tractor serial # info.

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Has anyone got a link to decoding of the letters after ser.#?

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LOOKS like? D
9089 S-X-Y-FF
D = Diesel ?
9089 = 1964: Serial #6797 being start in 1964, built a little over the half way mark for YM serial # range (4198 total), with last serial #built in 1964= 10996.
1965: 10996

Does anyone know where I can find the information for decoding the "S-X-Y-FF" ?

I will be visiting local IH dealer to order repair manual.
Thank You for any help or information.
 
The split in the cylinder wall is presently protruding outward and not inward. Multiple freeze cycles from low concentrated antifreeze might have.....
1) Froze in block first which cracked liner
2) Cracked liner allowed water/coolant into #3 Cylinder after thaw
3) Water filled cylinder refroze and ice expanded liner outward
4) As water thawed each time, it seeped into crankcase by piston/liner #3
5) After thaw, PO trying to start, pushed water out of cylinder & also through exhaust manifold filling upright muffler & into other cylinders when starting stopped, thus allowing coolant to fill #1 cylinder mostly filling it, and seeping into #2 w/ exhaust valve off seat...
I am able to turn engine over at crank pulley, but only to the extruding rust on cylinder walls, which seems to stop piston movement.
While I was cleaning rust off of #3 cylinder wall, is when I found split liner.
I have not fully cleaned #1 cylinder rust off yet, it too may be split?
As mentioned in last post, drained 5 gallons coolant out of crankcase Saturday.
There was maybe 1-2 quarts of oil left in crankcase.
So, I am assuming, there was an oil spot under tractor from oil being floated out of dipstick tube while crankcase was being overfilled with the 5 gallons water.

mvphoto30608.png

I am trying to make Heads or Tales out of tractor serial # info.

mvphoto30610.png

Has anyone got a link to decoding of the letters after ser.#?

mvphoto30611.png

LOOKS like? D
9089 S-X-Y-FF
D = Diesel ?
9089 = 1964: Serial #6797 being start in 1964, built a little over the half way mark for YM serial # range (4198 total), with last serial #built in 1964= 10996.
1965: 10996

Does anyone know where I can find the information for decoding the "S-X-Y-FF" ?

I will be visiting local IH dealer to order repair manual.
Thank You for any help or information.
 
The split in the cylinder wall is presently protruding outward and not inward. Multiple freeze cycles from low concentrated antifreeze might have.....
1) Froze in block first which cracked liner
2) Cracked liner allowed water/coolant into #3 Cylinder after thaw
3) Water filled cylinder refroze and ice expanded liner outward
4) As water thawed each time, it seeped into crankcase by piston/liner #3
5) After thaw, PO trying to start, pushed water out of cylinder & also through exhaust manifold filling upright muffler & into other cylinders when starting stopped, thus allowing coolant to fill #1 cylinder mostly filling it, and seeping into #2 w/ exhaust valve off seat...
I am able to turn engine over at crank pulley, but only to the extruding rust on cylinder walls, which seems to stop piston movement.
While I was cleaning rust off of #3 cylinder wall, is when I found split liner.
I have not fully cleaned #1 cylinder rust off yet, it too may be split?
As mentioned in last post, drained 5 gallons coolant out of crankcase Saturday.
There was maybe 1-2 quarts of oil left in crankcase.
So, I am assuming, there was an oil spot under tractor from oil being floated out of dipstick tube while crankcase was being overfilled with the 5 gallons water.

mvphoto30608.png

I am trying to make Heads or Tales out of tractor serial # info.

mvphoto30610.png

Has anyone got a link to decoding of the letters after ser.#?

mvphoto30611.png

LOOKS like? D
9089 S-X-Y-FF
D = Diesel ?
9089 = 1964: Serial #6797 being start in 1964, built a little over the half way mark for YM serial # range (4198 total), with last serial #built in 1964= 10996.
1965: 10996

Does anyone know where I can find the information for decoding the "S-X-Y-FF" ?

I will be visiting local IH dealer to order repair manual.
Thank You for any help or information.
 
The split in the cylinder wall is presently protruding outward and not inward. Multiple freeze cycles from low concentrated antifreeze might have.....
1) Froze in block first which cracked liner
2) Cracked liner allowed water/coolant into #3 Cylinder after thaw
3) Water filled cylinder refroze and ice expanded liner outward
4) As water thawed each time, it seeped into crankcase by piston/liner #3
5) After thaw, PO trying to start, pushed water out of cylinder & also through exhaust manifold filling upright muffler & into other cylinders when starting stopped, thus allowing coolant to fill #1 cylinder mostly filling it, and seeping into #2 w/ exhaust valve off seat...
I am able to turn engine over at crank pulley, but only to the extruding rust on cylinder walls, which seems to stop piston movement.
While I was cleaning rust off of #3 cylinder wall, is when I found split liner.
I have not fully cleaned #1 cylinder rust off yet, it too may be split?
As mentioned in last post, drained 5 gallons coolant out of crankcase Saturday.
There was maybe 1-2 quarts of oil left in crankcase.
So, I am assuming, there was an oil spot under tractor from oil being floated out of dipstick tube while crankcase was being overfilled with the 5 gallons water.

mvphoto30608.png

I am trying to make Heads or Tales out of tractor serial # info.

mvphoto30610.png

Has anyone got a link to decoding of the letters after ser.#?

mvphoto30611.png

LOOKS like? D
9089 S-X-Y-FF
D = Diesel ?
9089 = 1964: Serial #6797 being start in 1964, built a little over the half way mark for YM serial # range (4198 total), with last serial #built in 1964= 10996.
1965: 10996

Does anyone know where I can find the information for decoding the "S-X-Y-FF" ?

I will be visiting local IH dealer to order repair manual.
Thank You for any help or information.
 
The S-X-Y-FF doesn't mean anything regarding the engine. It indicates the tractor has a TA (S), high speed low and reverse (X), 12GPM hydrailuc pump (Y), and 4.5GPM hitch pump (FF).

All courtesy google, BTW.
 
Well, you will never guess what I found!
So, I am going to assume the lever was removed after finding out how much the repair for the TA was going to be. :eek: :shock:
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Smart money would be on that TA being out on the low side. Those old mechanical TAs will run "forever" on the high side because it's held by a dry clutch, and those hardly every wear out unless someone has the TA way out of adjustment.
 
1) Cleaned Head: gasket area scraped/3M Green=steel rubber bristle cleaned Head gasket surface area, all gasket surfaces.
2) Port Wire brush cleaned 90% of exh./int. ports, Injector bores.
3) Wire brushed all valve seats and valve stems/tulips/faces of carbon.

Injector bores & Pre-combustion chamber area, injector side, don't look visually cracked, Other than:
1) #2 Brass/Bronze(?) Pre-combustion chamber falls out of head:?:
2) No massive amounts of rust in that area between lower side of chamber and pencil hole leading to top of #2 cylinder/piston combustion chamber area.
3) Just a slight amount of corrosion, possible water froze in this area and expanded #2 pre-combusion chamber bore?
4) No signs of visual cracks or rust lines that might indicate leak from cracking.
5) 1st check of cylinder head: surface has some pitting of the surface area @ gasket seal rings for coolant.
6) Slight warpage possibly .002" flat edged after 3M green bristle roll lock clean up. Closer exam still coming.

Only Exhaust :?: and not Intake Valve stems and valve margins have pits from rust that had formed from sitting.

I can only ASSUME :?: Intake valves possibly made of some grade of stainless steel:
1) Due to NO obvious rust pit damage on stems
2) The valve seat faces are not beat out like the EXHAUST valve faces are.
3) Exhaust valve stem wear much greater at top side of guide contact area, possibly>.001".
4) Intake valve stem guide contact area no obvious visual wear ridge :?:
5) Both Intake/Exhaust valve guide stem clearance pop tests sound off well.
6) Exhaust stem to guide clearance possibly greater than spec, still need to verify w/ stem pilots when using Neway Valve seat cutters.

* Last weekend, filled crankcase with more oil, trying to coat all crankcase internals as much as possible.
* Poured diesel/cleaner into coolant passage area, hoping to coat outer side of lower liner, which might help with it's removal.
*Brought home part of OTC liner remover system in order to start liner removal, hopefully later today?

I would make journal, but link doesn't seem to be working properly?
Is anyone else having this issue?
I apologize for duplicate posts, but editing is inop @ this time.
:oops:
 

After 2 weeks of sitting with 4 gallons of used oil/diesel in crankcase:
1) Dropped Power steering linkage and cylinder.
2) Drained oil w/ water out
3) Removed oil pan, Engine balancer assy. w/ shims, 2 bolt flange oil pump/screen
4) Unbolted rods from crankshaft & removed piston/rod assemblies

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The bad :twisted: Cylinder#3 upper loner flange decided to start breaking when piston was bumped out.
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So I set up to try and remove #4 cylinder sleeve for practice.

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After alot of fanagling around, I finally got the lower sleeve puller plate to stay somewhat centered enough to get this cylinder to move 1/8ish" by using the tighten very tight and hit end with JD tool.


From that point I went back to underside and using brass rod was able to JD tool persuade the liner up at the lower block notch enough to get 2 Ladies Heels under Liner flange.

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So, it appears to be a dry liner set up.
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