IH 3414 gas loader hydraulic issue

Hello this is my first post on the forum, we live in northern Illinois. I inherited a 60's 3414 loader tractor from my father in law. I was out lifting and moving stuff with the bucket when suddenly the front bucket wont lift, will only lower. I've always checked the engine oil and hydraulic oil on the tractor and its always been fine. I pulled it into the barn and noticed the hydraulic oil was low. The hydraulic tank is up top right next to the gas tank. I should also mention that the 3 point hitch still raises and lowers so only the front loader wont lift.
I had to add 3.5 gallons to the hydraulic tank to get the level up to the top of the filter! The loader would still not lift. Had to go away for a couple weeks due to the holidays.
Today I started the tractor and let it warm up. I removed the hydraulic cap and noticed the fluid was flowing around and there was suction in the middle of the filter. I put the cap back on and drove it around a bit. I parked it in the barn and turned it off. When i took the hydraulic cap off fluid started to flow out of the top, like it was pressurized. It made quite a mess. I checked the engine oil and it was right where its supposed to be so there is no hydraulic oil in the engine crankcase.
What could be the issue with the hydraulics? This tractor is old and I've had to do a lot of upkeep on it to keep it running. I don't want to buy a new tractor and I like fixing things on my own. What should I troubleshoot next?
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Brian

Hoses can break on the inside while looking good on the outside. If they do, it causes a one way valve like action
in the hose. To check this, make sure the system has no pressure in it (bucket down or down on something) then
switch the lines from one port to the other on the valve, Making up into down and down into up. if now it only
lifts, it is a possible issue. If it has quick couplers on the lines, one of those may have come partially or fully
disconnected. Is there a front mounted pump for the loader, or the tractor built in pump? Jim

(quoted from post at 14:48:54 01/01/19) Hoses can break on the inside while looking good on the outside. If they do, it causes a one way valve like action
in the hose. To check this, make sure the system has no pressure in it (bucket down or down on something) then
switch the lines from one port to the other on the valve, Making up into down and down into up. if now it only
lifts, it is a possible issue. If it has quick couplers on the lines, one of those may have come partially or fully
disconnected. Is there a front mounted pump for the loader, or the tractor built in pump? Jim

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what it has for pumps, I don't have a manual for the tractor. I'm trying to locate something I can purchase for information.

Hi Brian, I am no expert on the Industrial model 3414 only worked on the agricultural models. But I believe the 3414 has two
separate hydraulic systems. The 3pt and PS run off the hydraulic pump(s) on right front side of the engine and the reservoir is
under the seat. The loader and if so equipped backhoe run off a hydraulic pump that runs off the front crankshaft and is mounted
on the front under the rad. Follow the hydraulic hoses and you will find the pump. The reservoir was in various places including
some were in the loader frame and there is a separate hydraulic filter.

Is it possible there was some water in the hydraulic fluid and froze into ice and blocked the flow somewhere and then it thawed
and now it works?

JimB

(quoted from post at 15:01:52 01/01/19) Hi Brian, I am no expert on the Industrial model 3414 only worked on the agricultural models. But I believe the 3414 has two
separate hydraulic systems. The 3pt and PS run off the hydraulic pump(s) on right front side of the engine and the reservoir is
under the seat. The loader and if so equipped backhoe run off a hydraulic pump that runs off the front crankshaft and is mounted
on the front under the rad. Follow the hydraulic hoses and you will find the pump. The reservoir was in various places including
some were in the loader frame and there is a separate hydraulic filter.

Is it possible there was some water in the hydraulic fluid and froze into ice and blocked the flow somewhere and then it thawed
and now it works?

JimB

Click to expand...

Hi Jim. Yes the 3point and PS do still work. The day the front loader quit working I had been using it for a couple hours when it quit working. It hasn't worked since.

Has both the bucket and the loader boom stopped working?
Is there a backhoe involved?
Did I understand correctly that the hydraulic fluid was circulating in the reservoir?

JimB

(quoted from post at 15:43:41 01/01/19) Has both the bucket and the loader boom stopped working?
Is there a backhoe involved?
Did I understand correctly that the hydraulic fluid was circulating in the reservoir?

JimB

Click to expand...

Yes both the loader lift and bucket tilt stopped working. The tractor doesn't have a backhoe.
Yes the hyd fluid was circulating, and there was suction in the middle of it.

Hi Brian, I am just going by guess work here as I have no specific knowledge of the loader setup on your 3414.

So since you see the hydraulic oil circulating it would appear the pump is working and it would appear to be an "open center"
hydraulic system which means the hydraulic oil is always flowing in a circle, from reservoir via the large suction line to the
pump and out the smaller high pressure line to the control valve assembly and if no control valve is activated then back to the
reservoir.
So with your problem the hydraulic fluid is circulating, does it stop circulating when you pull one of the loader control
valves?
Is the control valve visible? or is it hidden under the dash? Just verify that when you pull the control valve lever that it
actually moves the spool. Should be a spool for bucket and one for boom.

The other component of a hydraulic control valve is the relief valve which usually has a spring that holds a ball or spool in a
hole until the pressure exceeds the predefined pressure and then releases uncovering the hole allowing the hydraulic oil to
bypass and return to the reservoir.

So if your relieve valve spring was to break then neither loader or bucket will work.

There are several Youtube videos on open center hydraulic systems.

JimB

(quoted from post at 16:22:52 01/01/19) Hi Brian, I am just going by guess work here as I have no specific knowledge of the loader setup on your 3414.

So since you see the hydraulic oil circulating it would appear the pump is working and it would appear to be an "open center"
hydraulic system which means the hydraulic oil is always flowing in a circle, from reservoir via the large suction line to the
pump and out the smaller high pressure line to the control valve assembly and if no control valve is activated then back to the
reservoir.
So with your problem the hydraulic fluid is circulating, does it stop circulating when you pull one of the loader control
valves?
Is the control valve visible? or is it hidden under the dash? Just verify that when you pull the control valve lever that it
actually moves the spool. Should be a spool for bucket and one for boom.

The other component of a hydraulic control valve is the relief valve which usually has a spring that holds a ball or spool in a
hole until the pressure exceeds the predefined pressure and then releases uncovering the hole allowing the hydraulic oil to
bypass and return to the reservoir.

So if your relieve valve spring was to break then neither loader or bucket will work.

There are several Youtube videos on open center hydraulic systems.

JimB

Click to expand...

Thanks Jim! Looks like I need to find out where the relief valve is.
But I also need to find out why/where I lost 3.5 gallons of hydraulic fluid.

Brian

Also why would the hydraulic fluid tank become pressurized? Like I said after shutting it down and removing the cap, fluid started coming out the opening of the tank.

I had a quick coupler fail so that the oil would not return. does it have them you may want to change them.

Brian, here is a thought on an old post. If pump in front of radiator is worn just enough or if the check valve inline is held open by broken spring, or hose collapsed on inside, the oil could be cavitating.when it does this, the fluid will be foamy to some point as the cavitation causes air bubbles to circulate. As the air bubbles circulate, the cavitation increases. Ford pickups mid 70s had a problem with power steering whine. This was caused partly because of the cavitation from oil passing through worn seals on steering gear spool and/or fluid getting low and sucking air. When refilling and shutting truck off, fluid overflowed.
3-point lift and power steering ran off of hydraulic pump on right hand side.

Picture 2 shows location. Single pump for hydrostatic steering.
Picture 1 shows tandem pump for steering and 3-point lift.

Hello LN welcome to YT! I know you acknowledged that this is an old post, but I just thought I would add this. Not sure how familiar you are with forums but I think in most cases this forum shows you how many posts a member has posted. It is possible that in the case of some browsers it may not be shown. Any way the poster BDSHUGGY is shown as posting 10 times. All the posts he made were on the subject of the hydraulics on his IH 3414 in early 2019. There are a few more complexities about his post numbers but I will not go into those details see. Without any more complications, I am just going to say since there was not a peep heard from him since then the likelihood of you getting a reply or acknowledgement on this would be quite a surprise to me. More than likely he is long gone. I am sure if someone else comes across this thread later on they will be most grateful of your added information. Hope you hang around we need someone knowledgeable on the hydraulics on those old IH industrial machines. Although I think this one is quite similar to the Utility and Ag 414 models. Now we will see if I am proven wrong. A while back I had to ..eat some crow.. when a ..dormant.. poster popped in on a similar reply to someone else.