Farmall 450 fluid changes

I’ve been working on my 450 (https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1366518). I’ve replaced the radiator, new wiring harness, a couple of new hydraulic lines, changed oil and filter, drained the hydraulic and replaced with hytran, and yesterday moved on to the transmission.

Drained about a gallon and a half of water out with the oil. I put 10 gallons of diesel into it and ran it around for about 20-25 minutes. Up hill, down hill, 1st thru 4th gear, & reverse. Drained it right away and it came out milky which was no surprise.

However, after I drained it, I found pieces of a bearing cage (no bearings) plus what I would guess to be a 1/4” thick layer of sludge still in the bottom of the casing. There were no grinding or whining noises when I drove it around. The oil condition and sludge on the bottom of the casing lead me think these pieces may have been there for a while and are not a recent failure - but I don’t know.

At this point, I’ll likely not pull the top cover and get into it this fall and winter (I work in an old barn and have no heat). I don’t want to leave it empty to draw moisture but I also don’t want to put 15 gallons of hytran in it just to drain it out in the spring.

Question 1: any concerns using an off brand (TSC) hydraulic oil as a “filler” until I can get back into this project? This does have the T/A.

Question 2: any suggestions for a good way to clean that sludge out without doing a tear down?

Thanks in advance.

answer to question #2. Put the front end up on a ramp, and bend a piece of flat stock about 90 degrees to make a scraper and drag the goop out. Ellis

What oil you use is personal preference.

Since Hytran did not exist at the time of the 400 being produced, anything meeting the earliest Hytran specification will be more than adequate for your tractor. You don't need the latest greatest additive package designed for powershift and IVT/CVT transmissions.

How many years have you owned this tractor? How much have you run it? What kinds of work are you doing with the tractor? If it's not been causing any issues previously, I would not hesitate to just put new oil in and run it. If it start's making noises, THEN it's time to open it up and see what's what.

I'm not familiar with the 400/450 tractors but wondered if that bearing was part of an oil slinger. If so, don't let the tractor sit still
while running or you might damage the transmission bearings. Just a thought, hope others will post on this.

Dave

Thanks for the responses.

Dave, I’m not certain of the slinger aspect. It did sit running for a few minutes when I had the diesel in it. I may have simply been lucky?

Barnyard, this tractor was given to me at the end of August as a retirement gift. I can’t say if there were any issues with it previously. The radiator was bad enough that a reputable repair shop wouldn’t touch it. When I pulled the dash and shroud off to rewire it, I cleaned out enough packed dirt to put 4” into the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket. The first two inches of the air breather element had chaff and seed sucked into it with 1/2” of crud in the oil cup. My point is that in its later life, I believe the maintenance was neglected. I do not have records.

This tractor will not get worked hard. It may get some mowing work next spring/summer and there was an outside chance of pushing some snow this winter until this.

If it isn't making a lot of noise from the trans and you're only gonna mow with it then i would fill it and run it. The tractor is 60 years old, who knows how many times someone has been in it and you found debris not recovered. When i worked in heavy construction we found all manner of iron in differentials, oil pans, etc.

It would not hurt to pull the live PTO box off the back to allow a bigger hole to access during the clean out process. I don?t think it is to difficult but it will have a long shaft out of the front and maybe a dual splined sleeve you have to make sure doesn?t fall off or get in the wrong position when going back in. With that removed you can look in there and see what is going on. On an M or H if an axle bearing drops a ball there is not enough clearance under the bull gear and if a ball gets btweeen the gear teeth and case it can and will pop out a chunk of the casting to give you a instant oil drain you don?t want.

Follow up - thanks everyone for the help. I did bend some flat stock as Ellis suggested but did not pull out much goop. When I was done with that, I was able to get a fair look inside through the drain hole and what I could see did look good. I believe OldFarmall450 was correct in that someone left some debris at some point in the past. The shape of the transmission casing allowed that stuff to drop clear.

I have filled it it with oil and plan to start using it to see what may pop up next.

Thanks again everyone.

I had a similar experience with my 450. Found part of a bearing cage when I first changed the tranny oil. Used a magnet to drag out additional pieces of metal. A couple years later I replaced the live PTO and had better access to find more of the bearing cage and part of a broken hand wrench. I surmised that a field repair was done at some point and that whoever did the repair was not diligent about removing all the broken parts.

(reply to post at 07:52:45 11/06/18)

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People forget that running diesel fuel in a transmission
For 20 minutes is not a good idea
Some parts in there are spinning at engine speed
Not enough lubrication for me
Just saying