Super M trans bearings

So, I have a Super M,all stripped down, ready to re-install rebuilt engine etc. I was thinking of changing the front bearings on the input shaft, and on the counter shaft. How hard is it to remove these bearings? I really don't want to get into pulling apart the whole trans. There are mega- hours on this beauty, so I figure the bearings are pretty worn. Countershaft bearing has IHC markings, so I figure its original. Haven't pulled the top seal retainer yet, so haven't seen the top one yet.Will try to load a pic. I always get great advice here from you experts, so here we go again!! Thanks in advance... Darryl
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That shaft driving the pump unscrews Lefty loosy. The bearig might just come out with some inventive tools and a slide hammer. THe upper bearing comes out with the shaft. Be sure to capture the pilot (intermediate) bearing rollers with a string or they may find a new home. Jim
 
Lower bearing will come out the front after the drive dog is screwed of shaft. That bearing and retainer is what places the counter shaft from moving front to rear. If going to replace recommend you remove the belt pulley gear box or cover to hold shaft from going out of place. Best to have it off anyway to replace bearings at top. Remove the big retainer and pull whole thing out. Input shaft has two bearings, front of shaft needs key removed before removing shaft out of the rear. Also check out the bearing and related parts on front of main shaft that goes inside input shaft. When installing the input shaft back the main shaft can be guided by going through belt pulley gear box opening.
 
I was able to get the pump driver loose after asking about it on this forum.I was real happy when I got it loose! So you're saying the top shaft has to come out? It's a split shaft with needle bearings in between? looks like two upper input bearings. Gears are real worn on this thing. I see mission creep coming on!! Lol Newer gears, bearings everywhere.. Not afraid of it. Just takes more time..... Darryl
 
Yep, belt pulley gear box is out. I had everything torn down, because i was thinking of removing the top cover, but i had second thoughts on that. But if need be....!!
 
With it split now is the time to do any work in there needed as it saves the second split later. Since you're half way there now.
 
While we are on the subject, anyone know where I can get these bearings and seals. I'm assuming Case IH, but there might be an alternative. Take the numbers and go to NAPA?
 
What do you call very worn? In these old tractors the edge of the gear teeth that clash when the gears are shifted can be worn or ..ground.. back quite a bit and be chipped and still be fine. That is if they were not noisy and popping out of gear. Now if the teeth are thinning like the profile of a mountain that is erroding from a landslide then yes you have problems.
 
I did a H while back. The bearing houses that I use could not get cross on everything so went to Case IH dealer. Didn't save boxes so don't have numbers.
 
teeth are Very rounded off from gear clash. Awhile back i posted pics on here , and was told don't worry about it. So for now i go with this gear set and hope for the best. I only ran this tractor a little bit after i bought it so i don't know if the trans is noisy or what. Let's hope! Other wise we dive into the trans for repairs. Darryl
 
Thanks to all who responded. You guys are really a National Treasure, with all your knowledge, and dedication. Reading on this forum is what gives me the confidence to tear these tractors down to the last nut. I know if i get stuck, someone will bail me out. oh well, back to the garage. There will be more questions guys! Thanks.... Darryl
 
The mating edges of all gears that shifted into mesh went through an additional "Rounding" machining operation to aid in engagement. Only gears I can think of not rounded were the two gears for 5th gear, direct drive between the sliding gear shaft and the back end of the input shaft. If someone abused the transmission by grinding it into gear all the time this rounding may be damaged but should still be visible.

I was a production scheduler at Farmall during the 86-series production, department I scheduled did the rounding of gear teeth along with lots of other secondary operations.
 
Depending on what you find, replacing bearings could be an all or nothing deal. What I mean is that there are bearing "teams" in there.

On the input shaft you have two bearings, usually worn, and in the end of the input shaft resides the pilot bearing. That system holds one end of the transmission main shaft. The other end down by the pinion holds the other end of the main shaft. All four bearings work together. Usually the two for the input shaft will show the most wear as they are short coupled and there is a lot going on at that end.

The pilot bearing is often loose and when it gets bad enough the tractors will start popping out of gear because the main shaft and counter shaft are no longer parallel. The pilot bearing is the only roller bearing in there and there are two ways it can be. The rollers are captured in a cage and either the inner race (on the end of the main shaft) or the outer race (inside the input shaft) will not have a flange. This allows the assembly to slide together. There is a third way where you can put a double ball bearing of the same dimensions but it has a little less load capacity in terms of ultimate strength.

Here's the key idea: All the bearings are *STANDARD METRIC BEARINGS* and are easily found anywhere in the world. IH followed standard conventions with regards to ball bearings which means they have metric dimensions. They did us all a huge favor as we can easily find these parts for a 70 year old machine.

The IH part numbers and markings have no relation the standard bearing markings. Not all bearing houses and/or personnel seem to understand this. Some have the books that will cross IH part numbers and some do not. I have run into some of them that are flat clueless.

Measure the bearings with metric calipers or simply convert inch to metric. OD, ID, and width will get you what you want. The bearings have suffixes that tell if it has seals, shields, snap rings or other information. The letters can vary depending on manufacturer so you'll have to look up their nomenclature tables.

You can upgrade bearings to "max type" which have greater radial load capacity due to more balls. The have filling slots cut in them and a slightly reduced axial load capacity. Some of the locations had those from the factory and some not.

You're working on a Super M? Here's some numbers I used on one of mine for the transmission:
Input shaft inner: 309W
Input shaft outer: 308WG
Main shaft Rear: 311K or 311W (upgrade)
Counter shaft front: 207KG or 207WG (upgrade)
Counter shaft rear: 211K or 211W (upgrade)
Pilot bearing: M5205E (goes inside input shaft and has the rollers and outer race)
Pilot bearing: MA5205 (inner race that goes on end of main shaft)

The pilot bearing is the tricky part because of the different combinations to get there. The basic size is "5205" and then go from there.

Any name brand bearing will be fine: SKF, MRC (owned by SKF), NTN, Bower (owned by NTN), Koyo, Nachi, FAG, Timken, Fafnir. There's probably other good ones I missed so do some checking.
 
your point about the front bearings having the most wear is well taken. THis is what started me on the trans teardown. Driveshaft in the bell housing was very waggly, so i just assumed the front bearings had taken a beating. Looks like i will be doing all of them! I will be needing the rubber washers and retainers for the front yoke and drive shaft, but that is for another time. Thanks so much for the part numbers. Like i always say, the people on here are the best!!! Regards... Darryl
 
Good advise here. I went thru our 47 M transmission last winter. Wouldn't hold 5th gear. Was told it would be a bad gear. (4th/5th gear. Once I got in it I found the pilot bearing bad in between the 2 shafts. And several other bearings bad.

See my pictures of the teardown and rebuild.

https://ImageEvent.com/texasdutchman/farmalls/farmall1

I got all the bearings I needed at our local farm supply store in town. I'd have to look up the bill but I don't think I paid more then $200 for all the bearings I needed. That included the big axle bearing of which I was told they'd be something like $200 a piece.
Farmall pictures
 

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