Farmall H - low power under load

Hi everybody, long time reader first time poster.

I'll cut to the chase:

Late last fall I was pulling the harrow in second gear when, all of the sudden, the tractor lost most of its power. I dropped the harrow and to my surprise the tractor seemed to run fine.

Thinking it must be a carb issue, I got a rebuild kit (in the interest of full disclosure I purchased it from Tractor Supply - I know, not the best). Put the carb back on it and same issue - no power under load. Thinking it may be a timing issue, I pulled apart the distributor cap and and inspected, cleaned up and gapped the points and messed with the timing, and it seems to run a lot better.

This, however, did not fix the problem. Thinking I missed something in the carb, I pulled it apart and cleaned it (again) with carb cleaner and compressed air. Double checked the float height as well.

Still didn't take care of the issue. On to the governor. Pulled the linkage from the carb apart and removed the pin (as according to the service manual, which I have) and it seems fine. Also tried adjusting the throttle rod to the point where I left about 1/4 inch outside the nut towards the front of the tractor. Didn't make much difference, so I put it back where I found it, which was about 7/8 of an inch outside the nut towards the tractor.

Opened up the governor (pulled the cover on the side) and all appears to be fine (as far as I can tell) except that with WOT the governor appears to be in 'medium' throttle position as shown by the service manual (shown in the photo below), meaning both the idle and high limit bolt/screws don't touch their stops. When I put the throttle back at idle the idle screw will touch, but does not get close to touching at WOT. I understand I can adjust the screw/bolt to touch the stop, but is that necessary?

After all this the tractor runs better, even under a load, but still lacks the power that it had before. It will also occasionally get close to stalling out when really working it, mainly when pulling the harrow through deeper soil.

I'm also thinking the tractor is idling to high. I put a tach on it and it says that its idling at around 900...WOT is around 1600. I've got the idle screw on the side of the carb near the governor linkage turned all the way out.

I've also disconnected the air cleaner to see if that was clogged and have the same low power under load situation.

Also, the tractor appears to have good fuel flow, so I don't think it's an issue of getting fuel to the carb. (Fuel cap vent appears to allow air in and out, I've cleaned the sediment bowl)

Sorry for the lengthy post. At this point I'm willing to try anything. I've read through a ton of posts on this site and others and can't find a resolution to the problem I'm having.

Thanks, and I appreciate any assistance and advice!
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I had trouble with my H not opening the governor under load and ended up changing the unit. Mine had a 3 weight governor (maybe an M &W) and I didn't have any manuals that matched it to trouble shoot it so I bought a used, original 2 weight unit and the problem was fixed. I don't know what was wrong with the 3 weight unit. I know it got run for a while with no oil splashing to I. I've also had tractors without much power when the points badly needed some work. Have you got a strong spark.
 
I've replaced the plugs and wires, but have yet to replace the points (cleaned and gapped them though) and condenser. I'm thinking the spark is pretty good, arced out on me yesterday and gave me a good jolt. Maybe I should just replace them?
 
The governor is literally a balancing act and everything has to be about perfect to make it all work. I have a D17 that the governor quit working on. I bought a new sets of weights for it and pulled it apart. The old set of weights looked good (especially compared to others I has seen removed) but since it was apart I installed the new weights anyway thinking I had just thrown away some money. Put it together and it functioned perfectly.
 
(quoted from post at 10:26:01 05/09/18) I wouldn't replace either - just clean up the points.
Is there anyway to tell if the governor is at fault? I've had the side cover open and checked it out, however I'm not sure what exactly I'm looking for as far as wear.
 
Have you checked for adequate fuel supply to the carb? Meaning will it fill a pint jar when you pulll
the carb drain plug in 3 minutes? Start the jar filling after the initial heavier flow of draining the
carb bowl has ended. The throttle has a bell crank up under the hood that changes throttle rod motion to angle down
toward the governor. Have you looked that over for problems. Pretty simple mechanics to it but
you never know.
 

I haven't tried draining the carb. I will try that. I took off the cowling and checked out the bellcrank, intially the threaded rod was 27/32 past the nut that is towards the front of the tractor. I adjusted it to about 1/4 and did a quick trial with the harrow, and there wasn't a significant change, so I adjusted it back. Tried to find something in the service manual referencing adjustment for it, but could not.
 
put a new spring in it. Not running, when you move the hand throttle wide open, the carb butterfly should be wide open too.
 
Just another suggestion here. I had somewhat similar low power problems with my 300. After a lot of parts $$, time, frustration, and hair pulling, I found the real problem. Evidently some mice or other critter had put some grain into a gas can and that grain went unnoticed into the fuel tank. So the kernels soaked up gas and stayed at the bottom of the tank, but as the tractor worked the fields, the grain would move around and partially plug the tank outlet to the fuel line. So not enough gas for full power, but yet enough to let the engine run WOT but not have sufficient power to pull hard when the governor wanted to open up. As the tractor went up hill or down hill or side hill, the grain would move and it might have full power, or might be stumbling. I don't recall how I diagnosed the problem, but maybe found the kernels when removing the gas tank for some other service. I suspect that is the reason the PO gave up and sold the tractor.

Today we have optical scopes which can see such problems without removing the gas tank.

Paul in MN
 
First the disclaimer; I am not a perfeshonal mekanik, nor do I play one on TV. I is a farmer, and a none too bright one at that because I don't know when to quit.

Seeing as you're looking for free advice, keep in mind that you get what you pay for, and looking at it from here, I am more likely to be wrong than right.

Could well be the condenser. Pick up a good one, say at NAPA. That's the cheap fix, if that cures the problem.

Do a compression check. You may have fractured a piston ring (possible), or you may have a valve that isn't seating properly (less likely), perhaps due to a broken valve spring.

The governor seems to be working ok by your description. At WOT and no load, it won't touch the HI stop. Block the rears (or chain it to a stout tree), put it in 5th, and have a helper ease out the clutch as you watch the gov. Even at 3/4 on the hand throttle, it should hit the HI stop as that sort of load is applied.

Then let us know what you find, so the next guy has a clue.
 
(quoted from post at 19:07:40 05/09/18) put a new spring in it. Not running, when you move the hand throttle wide open, the carb butterfly should be wide open too.

Any recommendations where to purchase the spring? I see that Steiner sells them, anywhere else?
 
Ok, I will try the condenser, spring (recommendations on where to purchase, other than Steiner?) and check the fuel flow/restrictions and report back! Continuing/further suggestions/advice appreciated!
 
Ok, I will try the condenser, spring (recommendations on where to purchase?) and check the fuel supply for restriction. Further advice still appreciated!
 
Whenever i hear runs great low on power i think intake leak. I would check the manifold bolts for
torque first. Maybe some propane around the manifold as a leak check or just put a new gasket
on it and check the intake for cracks. I had an M that had a cracked manifold that i temp fixed
with silicone.
 
I've never seen a "starving for fuel" scenario where the engine runs fine and only seems to lack power. The tractor will quickly run out of fuel, start sputtering, and die if the fuel flow is not adequate.

Get your governor spring at the CaseIH dealer. Probably won't be cheap but it will be the correct part.
 
About that condenser - I've got a coil mounted on the mag with the condenser mounted to the coil...I went to Napa today and was sold an echlin IH200 condenser - is this the correct condenser?
 
What you have there is a dead magneto using the internal points, and fitted with an external coil.

Yes, there should only be one condenser. Keep the Eichlin.
 
(quoted from post at 19:31:21 05/10/18) What you have there is a dead magneto using the internal points, and fitted with an external coil.

Yes, there should only be one condenser. Keep the Eichlin.

Out of curiosity, why does it require a resistor between the battery and coil?
 
The tractor is probably 12v. If not, you don't need it.

Most coils of the day were 6volt, requiring a 3-4 ohm dropping resistor to keep from frying not just the points, but the coil. Most cars of the 60's or so would send 'full voltage' to the coil (that second small terminal on starter solenoids) when cranking, and use a resistor in series with the coil for running. In Fords, that was a length of Ni-chrome wire rather than the white block your H and Dodge and others had.
 
(quoted from post at 23:27:40 05/10/18) The tractor is probably 12v. If not, you don't need it.

Most coils of the day were 6volt, requiring a 3-4 ohm dropping resistor to keep from frying not just the points, but the coil. Most cars of the 60's or so would send 'full voltage' to the coil (that second small terminal on starter solenoids) when cranking, and use a resistor in series with the coil for running. In Fords, that was a length of Ni-chrome wire rather than the white block your H and Dodge and others had.

Thanks for the explanation. I was also wondering, since I am unfamiliar with Magneto's, if the timing could be adjusted slightly by loosening the two bolts at the end towards the front of the tractor which allows you to rock the unit back and forth - or does that type of adjustment only apply to distributors?

Thanks again for your and everyone else's help. Got this tractor about a 2 years ago, and am still learning.
 
You have a cobbled up mess. Someone has tried to make your
magneto into a distributor. That is the wrong coil for a
magneto.

I would get the correct magneto parts or look for an IHC battery
distributor.
 
Some here are purists, and if a tractor came with a mag, it must wear it forever, and it must function correctly. A lot of tractors built in the 40's had electrical systems (lights, generator and a battery) as options. No battery meant a mag ignition had to be used. Some with mags had lights (and electrical systems) added later.

Other members here are more (dare I say) "practical", and as improvements in batteries, charging systems, ignition systems and a need for better lights have come along, they've made non-factory type modifications to their equipment to make it more "modern". Your tractor. Your choice.

According to your H parts book (you do have one, don't you? ;-) ), starting on page 42 here are the details for the magneto, should you wish to keep it "pure".

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So I just pulled the condenser out from under the mag and replaced the one mounted to the coil with the IH 200 condenser...and now it won't start? Any ideas? :(
 
Is the new condenser connected to the "points" side of the coil, or the battery (ignition switch) side? Are you sure nothing got grounded out on the wire from the points to the coil?

Do you have a meter?

If not, there are a few things you can check. First off, take a chisel and make a light "match mark" across the mating surfaces of the adjustment, so you know where you started. You can then loosen the bolts and turn the housing to make the points open and close, and with power on, you should get a nice spark from the coil as the points open. If not, you kinda needa meter.
 
(quoted from post at 14:19:20 05/11/18) Is the new condenser connected to the "points" side of the coil, or the battery (ignition switch) side? Are you sure nothing got grounded out on the wire from the points to the coil?

Do you have a meter?

If not, there are a few things you can check. First off, take a chisel and make a light "match mark" across the mating surfaces of the adjustment, so you know where you started. You can then loosen the bolts and turn the housing to make the points open and close, and with power on, you should get a nice spark from the coil as the points open. If not, you kinda needa meter.

What a weekend as far this tractor goes...

I had the new condenser hooked up to the points side of the coil - is that correct?

I do have a meter - I made sure the condenser was not grounded at TDC/Point break doing a continuity test. It was however, grounded when the points close, which I assume is normal.

After I couldn't get it to fire with the new condenser, I put it all back together the way it was. It then fired, but I managed to mess up the timing somehow (I'm pretty sure it was when I pulled off the cover to clean the points - I didn't realize the hole on the cover for the keyed shaft for the rotor moved...) , so not only did it backfire, but it backfired so hard it blew the rain guard off the top of the exhaust pipe:?. Pretty sure it hit the roof of the barn. Glad no one got hit in the head with it...

Anyway, I pulled the cover off and readjusted the points and also moved the rotor gear located in this area counterclockwise one tooth. Now it's popping through the carb?

Before doing that I pulled the number one plug and tried to find top dead center. I used a small flash light to look through the plug hole and watched the piston rise to its farthest point. I compared this with the marks on the pulley, and it seems to be off...although I'm not exactly sure which mark I should be using anyway - there are 3 - The first, when cranking the engine, is about 1/4 in away from two others which are about 1/8 in apart.
Service manual (at least mine) only shows two.

All this had me wondering if I should just go to a rather large junkyard about 20 miles away and see if I could get the complete mag or distributor. Drove round the place looking of tractors (this place is huge...) found a couple farmalls, but someone had beat me to the parts I needed, and another had the same set up as mine (Coil mounted to mag).

So it's still not running. Seems that when I turn the gear near the rotor one tooth one way and it backfires; one tooth the other way and it pops through the carb. Honestly getting frustrating, as I need to get this thing into the field (I use it for tilling)!

Also ordered the spring for the governor...it's in the mail.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions, please keep them coming!
 
(quoted from post at 07:35:47 05/14/18)
(quoted from post at 14:19:20 05/11/18) Is the new condenser connected to the "points" side of the coil, or the battery (ignition switch) side? Are you sure nothing got grounded out on the wire from the points to the coil?

Do you have a meter?

If not, there are a few things you can check. First off, take a chisel and make a light "match mark" across the mating surfaces of the adjustment, so you know where you started. You can then loosen the bolts and turn the housing to make the points open and close, and with power on, you should get a nice spark from the coil as the points open. If not, you kinda needa meter.

What a weekend as far this tractor goes...

I had the new condenser hooked up to the points side of the coil - is that correct?

I do have a meter - I made sure the condenser was not grounded at TDC/Point break doing a continuity test. It was however, grounded when the points close, which I assume is normal.

After I couldn't get it to fire with the new condenser, I put it all back together the way it was. It then fired, but I managed to mess up the timing somehow (I'm pretty sure it was when I pulled off the cover to clean the points - I didn't realize the hole on the cover for the keyed shaft for the rotor moved...) , so not only did it backfire, but it backfired so hard it blew the rain guard off the top of the exhaust pipe:?. Pretty sure it hit the roof of the barn. Glad no one got hit in the head with it...

Anyway, I pulled the cover off and readjusted the points and also moved the rotor gear located in this area counterclockwise one tooth. Now it's popping through the carb?

Before doing that I pulled the number one plug and tried to find top dead center. I used a small flash light to look through the plug hole and watched the piston rise to its farthest point. I compared this with the marks on the pulley, and it seems to be off...although I'm not exactly sure which mark I should be using anyway - there are 3 - The first, when cranking the engine, is about 1/4 in away from two others which are about 1/8 in apart.
Service manual (at least mine) only shows two.

All this had me wondering if I should just go to a rather large junkyard about 20 miles away and see if I could get the complete mag or distributor. Drove round the place looking of tractors (this place is huge...) found a couple farmalls, but someone had beat me to the parts I needed, and another had the same set up as mine (Coil mounted to mag).

So it's still not running. Seems that when I turn the gear near the rotor one tooth one way and it backfires; one tooth the other way and it pops through the carb. Honestly getting frustrating, as I need to get this thing into the field (I use it for tilling)!

Also ordered the spring for the governor...it's in the mail.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions, please keep them coming!
It sounds like you are almost there with the repair...just a little bit more and you will have it.
 
Did you remove the plug wires from the cap or plugs while you had this apart? It almost sounds like you have them back in the wrong order. Although you could just be that far off on the timing. These engines will run through a broad range of timing, there is just a range where they run the best and correctly.
 
(quoted from post at 08:42:53 05/14/18) Did you remove the plug wires from the cap or plugs while you had this apart? It almost sounds like you have them back in the wrong order. Although you could just be that far off on the timing. These engines will run through a broad range of timing, there is just a range where they run the best and correctly.

I didn't take any of the wires off, but checked just to be sure, and they were in the correct order.
 
Got it running last night. Went through and found top dead center and thought to myself that I had better make sure I was setting the timing on the compression stroke. So while holding a thumb over the number one plug hole I cranked the engine from the front with the crank (not the easiest thing to do) until I felt pressure, then used a flash light to watch it get to the top of the stroke. Checked the timing on the pulley, and it was lined up with the second notch (I read a ton of conflicting information on the pulley marks. On mine there are 3 marks - the first (as the engine turns) is about 1/4 inch away from another two marks which are about 1/8 in apart - I found TDC to be at the first of these two marks). I'm not sure if lining it up with the second notch is correct...let me know if that's not the correct mark to use for static timing.

Anyway, I popped off the distributor cap and found the timing 180 degrees off. I'm not sure what witchcraft was involved in getting it like that, as I was pretty careful in trying to prevent that to happen (not the first time). I then went through and cleaned up and checked the gap on the plugs and also checked the gap on the points. Fired right up!

I still was questioning fuel flow out of the tank, so I took off the sediment bowl and cleaned up a couple of flakes of paint that I found in the valve portion. Reinstalled it...not sure if it made a difference but didn't want to leave it to question.

I then replaced the governor spring (which I might add is the most expensive two inch spring I've ever purchased, something like $18.75 w/shipping).

I then adjusted the timing by loosening the bolts towards the front of the mag (i've got a mag with a coil mounted to it - I understand this wasn't an option during the time of production, but it works...if I could find a distributor that didn't cost as much as a good portion of this tractor, I'd buy it). I found that it ran better when rotating towards the engine, but the resistor was up against the block, so I figure I better move the gear under the rotor. If i'm not mistaken (could very well be!) rotating towards the engine would retard the timing. So would move that gear clockwise or counterclockwise (when viewing the adjustment from the direction of the cap)???

I also swapped out the condenser for the new one I had purchased, and it seemed to run much more smoothly with the new condenser.

With it running pretty good I decided to take a lap with the disc, and it no longer bogged down/lacked power like it did. I guess the spring worked?

One thing I did notice is that although it doesn't lack power like it did, it doesn't seem to have the top end RPM's it once had, even without a load. Is this adjustable only by adjusting the length of the throttle rod to the governor? or is there something I'm missing?

Thanks for all your help so far!!!
 
If you are getting full travel out of your hand throttle, then you may need to go through the governor adjustment procedure. Do you have a service manual for this tractor?
 
(quoted from post at 11:45:02 05/17/18) If you are getting full travel out of your hand throttle, then you may need to go through the governor adjustment procedure. Do you have a service manual for this tractor?

I do, but it only seems to touch on the limit screws and the carb to governor linkage, which I have checked, also removed the pin and checked that it moves freely in and out by removing the top cover that has the vent...but maybe I need to check it again given that I've replaced the spring?
 
If you take the side cover off the governor and pull the throttle wide open and the lower bolt is touching the case, you can back it out a little at a time to increase the high idle RPMs.
 

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