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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Input shaft

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Buckeye Wes

12-08-2017 15:53:59




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I was mowing on my 300 u this summer and get a loud metal on metal grinding noise. I thought I tore up a bearing on input shaft or pto. Started it briefly in barn to try and pin point noise. I went ahead and split tractor yesterday thinking issue would be easily found. My question is is it normal for the input shaft to wiggle around inside pto spline thing.




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BarnyardEngineering

12-12-2017 04:55:11




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to Buckeye Wes, 12-08-2017 15:53:59  
A machine shop is going to charge way more than $300 to repair the splines. It's all tedious work and gear cutting, which is many machinists' least favorite task. Lots of hours.
If you can get a new shaft, it is $300 well spent.



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Buckeye Wes

12-09-2017 07:17:44




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to Buckeye Wes, 12-08-2017 15:53:59  
Will the throw out bearing be putting pressure on pressure plate fingers all the time? When I hold pressure plate up to ipto splines to check how bad itís wore, itís about a 1/4 to 3/8 away from engaging teeth. The pp fingers are hitting throw out bearing long before splines engage. That doesnít seem right to me.



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D Slater

12-09-2017 08:53:21




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to Buckeye Wes, 12-09-2017 07:17:44  
Unless the pressure plate springs are depressed putting a unbolted pressure plate up to splines won't be accurate. Fingers go in when bolted to flywheel. If the release bearing is okay it shouldn't make much noise if it does touch the fingers, though it's not supposed to if the external clutch adjustments are correct.



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D Slater

12-09-2017 09:01:52




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to D Slater, 12-09-2017 08:53:21  
If you depress the clutch pedal and the clutch plate stops turning. Then the only parts still turning other than engine is the flywheel, pressure plate, release bearing and the PTO drive line back and into PTO. If you move PTO operating lever so PTO turns without anything hooked to it, does that change the noise?



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Buckeye Wes

12-09-2017 15:13:33




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to D Slater, 12-09-2017 09:01:52  
I'm pretty sure I found my noise. I believe if I would of tried to engage pto it would not of spun, there is no teeth left in pressure plate, not sure how I missed that when I removed it. The Ipto shaft splines that connect to pressure plate show more wear than I want. $300 is a lot for that shaft but I need one. Anybody try to have splines repaired? I also decided to replace all the bearing in the torque housing since I have it tore down. I pulled drive shaft and ta clutch but don't have a spanner to fit. Anybody know where to get one? This 300 U does have the seasonal pto coupling.

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D Slater

12-10-2017 12:32:56




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to Buckeye Wes, 12-09-2017 15:13:33  
Used to be a tool for the nut holding the t/a clutch carrier. Made the one I use from 3 inch steel pipe with 4 prongs sticking out to go in nut notches. weld flat plat on it with square in center for a long socket extension back from bell housing. Find them that were removed with chisel or punches over half the time. Lock ring needs tab lifted out on nut notch before moving. May have a good used shaft if you don't get one.

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Buckeye Wes

12-10-2017 13:30:08




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to D Slater, 12-10-2017 12:32:56  
Yes I need one. Also as I pulled out the TA it came apart and the 8 roller bearings fell out. Is it normal for the TA to split apart when pulling out by hand.



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D Slater

12-11-2017 11:29:19




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to Buckeye Wes, 12-10-2017 13:30:08  
Didn't have a good enough shaft.



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D Slater

12-10-2017 15:04:57




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to Buckeye Wes, 12-10-2017 13:30:08  
Yes they can part unless held right. If everything looks good, now you need to take the 4 special bolts out of the ramp and remove, put ramp back on forward part of t/a then install rollers then transmission input shaft and housing part over the ramp and 4 bolts back in. 4 bolts came with c clip safety retainers. Slot to get bolts back in has to be turned to each bolt. Will look for a shaft tomorrow.

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D Slater

12-08-2017 18:08:36




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to Buckeye Wes, 12-08-2017 15:53:59  
Clutch shaft goes to a splined coupling that joins it and T/A unit or the transmission input shaft if it doesn't have a T/A. So yes it will move around. Bigger diameter of shaft ahead of splined coupling will contact PTO drive gear shaft or clutch shaft nose rear will contact pilot bearing to keep shaft from moving forward. Splines get worn on the coupling and shaft it joins and they exert more thrust to shaft forward. IH made a change in the clutch shaft to T/A sometime during production so the shaft wouldn't contact the rear of PTO drive shaft. None of that is probably the cause of the noise though. If you don't see the reason it may be a good idea to remove the big pipe plug inside the clutch housing and see if nut holding PTO gear on shaft is loose. Also that shaft should have hardly any play up and down. Also check for loose drive hubs, springs or finders and other parts in the clutch and pressure plate. If it has the T/A clutch stuff can get loose in there.

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D Slater

12-08-2017 18:19:50




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to D Slater, 12-08-2017 18:08:36  
Didn't think to mention you may loose some oil if big plug is removed. I'm guessing the grinding may be coming from the PTO drive line since it doesn't matter if clutch is released or not. Shaft that goes to pressure plate has a bearing on each end. Shaft I mentioned checking for being loose has a needle bearing on front and a ball at rear. Another ball on next shaft and bushing at rear before another shaft joins the PTO. Never saw a utility with a seasonal disconnect for PTO but could be.

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Mark Robke

12-08-2017 16:07:03




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to Buckeye Wes, 12-08-2017 15:53:59  
Yes,all the ones I have had apart are like that.I was expecting you to have found your pto splines stripped out of the back of the pressure plate.Did your pto quit working when it happened? Mark



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Buckeye Wes

12-08-2017 16:46:43




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to Mark Robke, 12-08-2017 16:07:03  
No but splines are showing some wear. Throw out bearing shot but it grinds when siting still clutch in or out makes no difference. It looks like the input shaft has or is rubbing on the back of the crank. Not sure if that's possible but shaft nose looks like it rubbed a shiny circle on back of crank.



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FastFarmall

12-08-2017 18:21:43




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to Buckeye Wes, 12-08-2017 16:46:43  
Time to replace the pressure plate, i would say !



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Buckeye Wes

12-09-2017 07:20:13




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 Re: Input shaft in reply to FastFarmall, 12-08-2017 18:21:43  

Will the throw out bearing be putting pressure on pressure plate fingers all the time? When I hold pressure plate up to ipto splines to check how bad itís wore, itís about a 1/4 to 3/8 away from engaging teeth. The pp fingers are hitting throw out bearing long before splines engage. That doesnít seem right to me.



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