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450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ?

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OldFarmall450

05-31-2017 21:59:54




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My 450 starts right up, runs smooth, doesn't smoke, no loud unusual noises like mains hammering, or rods whirring on start up. Mark, who did most of the work on her said he thought the bottom end was tight, and lack of smoke on start up, or after idling for a while and throttling up shows the rings are good. I'm using 15-40 diesel oil right now. I haven't used her enough to tell if she's using oil.
She starts up with 45 lbs of pressure, according to the new gauge I installed. When she was at the shop I drover her around, and after she got hot would still hold about 15 lbs idling. Sounds good, right?

Ok, I've had her in the field a couple times, nothing serious, just pulling a cultivator in sandy soil with lots of overgrowth. After a 45 min workout she only carried 5lbs or so of pressure idling. It concerned me and I left her at a high idle until I moved her back home. I know the manual says above 15 lbs at starting is good, but seeing the gauge that close to bottoming out concerns me.

I've read on here about pulling the oil pump and milling a worn spot off...can someone give me a detailed explanation of that. I have access to a Bridgeport mill and operator, if need be.

I know my Dad would suggest running a pint or 2 of STP; he was a fan of its use in older engines.
Am I getting worried over nothing? Thoughts, advice, info welcomed as always.

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OldFarmall450

06-02-2017 21:24:06




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
D, if it's the mains can you hear them thump before oil pressure picks up like you can in an automobile engine? I haven't heard any sounds on crankup, but I'm not perfect. I have a long pry bar, i may have a go with that.
You say the oil pump can have serious wear issues, if that's the problem do you recommend anything other than what's talked about above?

Thanks.



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dblair

06-02-2017 19:46:37




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
I think it's the mains put a long pry bar under the front pulley and see if you can move it with an indicator in place . then you will know whether it's the oil pump or mains . by the way a m-450 oil pump is subject to some serious wear in the housing around the gears .



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OldFarmall450

06-01-2017 22:41:59




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
Rusty, thanks for the walk thru on the pump, D thanks for the specs. Looks like my next project.



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ih560

06-01-2017 13:29:58




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
I own a Surface Grinder, A large 11x49 Knee Mill, a 15x30 lathe and a lathe mill combo for smaller work and I would more than likely choose to just lap the oil pump cover on a flat surface.



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rustyfarmall

06-01-2017 13:18:00




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
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IF I owned a surface grinder, I would probably own a milling machine also.



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D Slater

06-01-2017 10:30:02




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
Oil pump gear to plate clearance the oil pickup mounts in should be .0035 to .0065. Gears sides to pump body .007 to .013. Gear backlash is .004 to .006. Other things to check, pressure regulating piston and spring, gear teeth damage ,body and plate damage and oil pump shaft worn at top of housing. That was a problem on some since the oil pressure is sent up the pump body to the oil gallery. If pump checks out it's time to investigate the engine.

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rustyfarmall

06-01-2017 08:08:18




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
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Not much to say, other than I have a 1950 H that was displaying the same oil pressure issues as what you described. I pulled the oil pump out, and then removed the cover. I discovered the oil pump gears had worn themselves into the cover, and quite deeply. I do not own a milling machine, and I don't know how a person would hold that cover securely on a milling machine anyway, so I just clamped it in the bench vise and used a large, flat file to remove material from the cover and made the severly worn area go away. That method is crude to say the least, but it worked. I them made a new gasket out of some thin paper, added a little silicon, and put it all back together. Before I did all that, the oil pressure gauge would come up to only 1/2, and then slowly drop off to almost nothing. Now the gauge goes all the way up, and eventually drops off by 1/4 to 1/3. As a side note, under that cover is a stiff spring for the pressure relief valve. That spring is strong, so take it slow and easy when removing the cover.

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D beatty

06-01-2017 08:22:02




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to rustyfarmall, 06-01-2017 08:08:18  
third party image

You can do the job with a surface grinder and get a perfectly flat surface.



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OldFarmall450

06-01-2017 07:53:58




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
Guys, thanks for the replies. Mark is old school and low tech, I don't think he's ever used plastiguage. I honestly hadn't heard of it either until joining here. We talked about the cam bearings, I had a bad experience with them once on a Ford ranger, but had my fingers crossed.
Rusty, please tell me more about "overhauling" the oil pump. Charlene had a layer of crud covering the oil intake screen. We soaked it in gas and used a wire brush to clean it.

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rustyfarmall

06-01-2017 07:14:48




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
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Same thing happens with the Hs and Ms. The cover is heavy enough on those that it does not really warp, but sometimes the gasket blows out. Also, with enough hours, the oil pump gears will wear themselves into the cover. The gears are still fine, but the cover will need resurfacing to make it flat again.



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BarnyardEngineering

06-01-2017 04:52:59




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
Did "Mark" plastigauge the bearings, or just grab-n-shake to determine that the bottom end was tight?

It could be worn cam bearings.



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D beatty

05-31-2017 23:41:55




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
I wouldn't use it much till you figure out whats wrong. I had a M and have a 450 gas and run Rotella 15-40 and run 75 lbs oil pressure hot or cold and full throttle or idle.



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gab

05-31-2017 22:33:55




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 Re: 450 Gas has low oil pressure, thoughts ? in reply to OldFarmall450, 05-31-2017 21:59:54  
That warped oil pump cover applied to the engines in the Cs/ SuperCs type engines, don't know if that applies to the bigger engines.



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