Welcome! Please use the navigational links on your left to explore our website.

Company Logo Shop Now
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 
Marketplace
Classified Ads
Photo Ads
Tractor Parts

Community
Discussion Forums
Project Journals
Your Stories
Show & Pull Guide
Events Calendar
Hauling Schedule

Galleries
Tractor Photos
Implement Photos
Vintage Photos
Help Identify
Parts & Pieces
Stuck & Troubled
Vintage Ads
Community Album
Photo Ad Archives

Research & Info
Articles
Tractor Registry
Tip of the Day
Safety Cartoons
Tractor Values
Serial Numbers
Tune-Up Guide
Paint Codes
List Prices
Production Nbrs
Tune-Up Specs
Torque Values
3-Point Specs
Glossary

Miscellaneous
Tractor Games
Just For Kids
Virtual Show
Museum Guide
Memorial Page
Feedback Form

Yesterday's Tractors Facebook Page

Related Sites
Tractor Shed
Ford 8N/9N Club
Kountry Life
  
Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Sand in oil?

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author  [Modern View]
DanMD

05-15-2017 16:46:40




Report to Moderator

I have a SMD with a brand new overhaul with 10 hours total run time. I drained the first oil after the first heat cycle and then after 10 hours. I found maybe 10 pieces of sand in the drain pail which i had cleaned beforehand. So I cut the oil filter apart and there is probably a teaspoon of sand all throughout this filter. Freaking out, I cut the oil filter apart from my Super C and it has the same looking sand in it as well but not nearly as much. I am a maintenance freak and am super picky.
I use Case/IH No. 1 in the SMD, Case/IH Low Ash in the Super C,Fleetguard Oil filters from Case/IH.

I showed the filters to my local IH service manager and he was perplexed. Said it looked like my oil system was open in a gravel pit during rock crushing operations.
I am a super clean freak. All maintenance performed in my closed garage. Garage is always locked up.
It looks like my hot oil pressure may be down some on the Super C as it now low idles slightly in the red.

Anyone else ever seen this before? Are my motors doomed? I have 10 grand in the SMD motor and am sick.

Thanks,

Dan

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
DanMD

05-23-2017 19:25:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
The oil system only has a bypass filter, so the pump goes straight to the bearings.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
DanMD

05-23-2017 19:19:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

The filter looked good on the outside of the cardboard. It is when I removed the outer cardboard to look at the pleats that I found it had very gritty sand in it.

I do not know the history on this tractor as I have only had it 3 years. No sandblasting while under my ownership.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
DanMD

05-23-2017 18:18:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Update.

Well, I have some encouraging news. I got a chance to work on my Super C. I pulled the valve cover and I did not find any sign of sand on top of the head. I pulled the oil filter that has about 10 hours on it and I cut it apart. It had no sand at all. I pulled the oil pan and found no sand. I pulled a rod and a main bearing and no signs of sand or bearing damage. So at least the Super C looks like it is in the clear. I won't get a chance to work on the expensive Super MD for a few more weeks. I have my fingers crossed.

So at this point, as crazy as it sounds, I am guessing the sand was in the filter from new.

Dan

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Indiana Ken

05-23-2017 19:06:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-23-2017 18:18:33  
If you are finding the sand on the outer side of the pleats - I am thinking the sand may have passed through the oil pump but not your bearings. Doesn't the oil enter the outside of the pleats and flow to the inside of the filter and on to the bearings from there. In this case the worst could be some damage to the pump.

BTW - did you do any cleaning using glass beads on the engine. The glass beads can fracture and embed in the metal. They then come out with heat cycles. A friend of mine had his intake manifold glass beaded. It looked real pretty but the embedded particles later, wiped out his intake valve guides.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
tractorguy2

05-17-2017 06:56:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
I have a friend that tore up a 450 on a loader. When I tore it down. I found the engine full of finely ground substance. The inside of the valve cover was full. The rocker arms and push rods were coated with this stuff. The oil pan was full enough with this stuff it clogged up the oil screen.

I showed it to him. He said it was ground up alfalfa. When the tractor quit he was grinding hay. I think it got in through his crank case vent.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
redforlife

05-16-2017 19:58:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Don't push the panic button. You probly wouldnt want to know how many rat terds and bugs are ground up in your oat mill you eat every morning either. An engine is not going to run dirt free. Otherwise we wouldn't be changing oil and filter on em. Bottom line, just keep changing oil and filter as recommended to keep it as clean as possible. I have seen way worse than a few grains of sand. I have seen small metal particles. Glad I changed oil and they no longer in the system.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
kcm.MN

05-16-2017 19:25:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Please keep us informed. This is better than the Monday Night Mystery movie!!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
DanMD

05-16-2017 18:09:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
So I took the filters to my machinist today and he said he has not seen this in his 57 years as a machinist. He cut both filters apart and found that all of the sand and mud grit is concentrated a couple of pleats on either side crimp. None of the material is magnetic. I am leaning towards thinking the crap was somehow there from the manufacturing process of the filters. I can't think of another reason all of it is piled up in the couple of pleats on either side of the metal crimp. Both the machinist and mechanic thought it strange and thought it would have been throughout the whole filter surface.
He wants me to drop the pans and look in there and look at the bearings and go from there.

Thanks,

Dan

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
kcm.MN

05-16-2017 07:49:48




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

This is the first I've heard of such idiocy. Thanks for the warning!!

Multiple times we've seen kids in the grocery store shaking up 2 liter bottles of soda. Wife bought one of those one time without knowing. Cap hit the ceiling and soda went everywhere! I really wish other shoppers would take the time to step in and stop these idiots when they see them!!

Getting back on topic, I keep trying to remember.....seems I remember something about some sort of oil filter many years ago that used some sort of carbon....activated charcoal maybe? And that it was normal to see the little granules in the oil. However, it wasn't supposed to damage the machine. Was back in the 70's I think when I heard that. Only other filters I know of that use carbon (activated charcoal) are water filters and air filters, including for respirators.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Paul Shuler

05-16-2017 06:49:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Two years ago I was buying a Wix oil filter at Oreillyís to put on my duramax. I had paid for it and my oil and getting ready to walk out when the boy at the counter said let me see that filter for a second. He said they most often have plastic wrap on them. He took it out of the box and turn it upside down and some sand poured out of it. He started tapping on it and a lot more came out. Either someone returned it after filling it with sand or someone took it off the shelve and did that and put it back. I check them all now. The clerk said he had seen that done before thatís why he checked it.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
D Slater

05-16-2017 06:46:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Just a thought on the MD, If the paint or sealer was removed from block internals when cleaning and some sand trapped by the block sealer now came loose that could be what is showing up.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
F-Dean

05-16-2017 06:29:26




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Sounds like you need to invest in a 12-guage and some buck-shot!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
kcm.MN

05-16-2017 06:28:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Ken -- Dang dude, that's an AWESOME FINE paint job! Beautiful tractor you got there!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ken Christopherson

05-17-2017 05:47:27




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to kcm.MN, 05-16-2017 06:28:08  
Thanks! It has it's flaws.. Maybe someday all of my tractors will be this nice. It is single stage urethane PPG. Lays real nice and covers well. Dries with a real nice shine! If you ever come to the Nowthen Threshing Show, be sure to stop by and say hi!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
NY 986

05-16-2017 06:23:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Another vote for anything is possible. I can remember years ago a farmer that was not very fussy as to where he kept his oil filling cans and often were near an open garage door with the wind pushing all kinds of debris in the shop and most likely into the cans. First rate job cleaning up engine but oil bath air cleaner never cleaned.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ken Christopherson

05-16-2017 06:00:21




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
third party image

third party image

Had something similar happen to me last year. I have been frequenting the same show for 19 years this year, bringing equipment nearly every year (I am only 30). This last summer, I had 3 tractors there. My newly rebuilt '47 IH M, my rebuilt '42 JD A, and my fully restored '41 Case SC. On the way home, I blew the fan belt on the Case SC. Towed it the rest of the way with a strap (about a mile). Parked it at a friends and left it until the next day when I could replace the belt. Got it back together, and it would NOT start for the life of me. Started checking things over - started at fuel flow. Nothing at the carb, nothing through the line, and nothing through the bowl assembly. Looked inside the tank and there was about a handful of what looked like fine (dried out field) sand in the bottom covering the tank outlet.

Needless to say, it shouldn't have been there. That tank was boiled, pressure checked, and lined prior to paint and reassembly. I swear to this day it was sabotage - more than likely some kids who were camping overnight with their family were messing around after show hours during the pulls and sent me home with a gift.

Photo is of my blown fan belt. Lol. And one more of the group at that show.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ih560

05-15-2017 20:37:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I've send what looks like sand in an engine that came from the crank, it had been ground and the person didn't clean it very good at all before installing it. It was enough to wreck the bearing and they had to have the crank ground again and new bearings. It was a decent amount of "sand" but not sure it was a teaspoon full



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
SW EM

05-15-2017 20:00:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
It would be interesting to see how the oil in the air cleaner and injection pump look. Maybe check your fuel system for sand contamination too....

It's a good thing the filter did its job and caught those particles. Maybe drop the oil pan and do an inspection of some bearings...?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
FastFarmall

05-15-2017 19:48:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
But definately send in a sample of that sand and oil into a lab, they might be able to tell where that sand came from !!! A crime lab would be better !!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
kcm.MN

05-15-2017 19:40:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
I have a nephew (I don't claim him!) that put plastic BB's, sand, rocks and sticks into Mom & Dad's washing machine AND their dryer! He shot one of Dad's shop windows with a BB gun, and basically broke anything and everything he could get his hands onto. Dad had a bad hard drive that he game to the boy to do with what he wanted....in the shop no less! Rather than taking a driver and bit to take it apart (I took EVERYTHING apart as a kid, and then put it all back together), he used a hammer and flat screwdriver and beat the crap out of the thing trying to get it open. He's a VERY destructive kid. ...Got any kids like this in your neighborhood?!?!?

When my Mom passed away, this same kid stole a cell phone from one of the funeral home employees - the owner's wife! Their son had an app installed and tracked it/them down. Lovable (and honest!) sis swore up and down her little angles would never do such a thing! A couple of minutes of explaining that GPS is pointing right to their truck, and shortly the boy was handing the phone back to the owner. No apology from the boy OR his mother!
This is the kind of kid who would go out and poison animals just to watch them die. And yes, I do believe I remember hearing about him and an older brother putting an animal in a microwave!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
FastFarmall

05-15-2017 19:16:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
You got any Enemie's, sound like sabotage to me, sorry but some one put that sand in there!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Fritz Maurer

05-15-2017 18:56:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Sand in two different motors, neither of which have been sand blasted? Sounds like you poured the sand in there, either from sand in the can or dirty oil handling equipment. No matter, only thing I can see to do now is continue change the oil at like 10-minute intervals until no sand can be detected in the filters. Then, lower the pan and survey the carnage. Be prepared to do a bearing roll-in, as there will be some sand embedded in the babbitt.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ihtimmy

05-15-2017 18:46:51




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Who rebuilt the engine was it you or a machine shop and was the head cracked like most of them are does that usually take them to a cylinder head rebuilt shop or the place that welds them up or you have somebody you don't like you



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
mattofvinings

05-15-2017 17:56:32




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
If anything was sandblasted on the oil side of the engine (like valve cover) during rebuild the residual is headed for the sump. Also possible if anything was scotch brited that sheds abrasive just like sandpaper.

You could try a straight weight oil like SAE30 which may have less propensity to entrain small particles and might let them sink to a quiet spot out of the way.

Casting core sand is pretty common on the water side of the engine though.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
DanMD

05-15-2017 17:46:26




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
Neither of these have been sandblasted or painted yet.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ihtimmy

05-15-2017 17:28:41




Report to Moderator
 Re: Sand in oil? in reply to DanMD, 05-15-2017 16:46:40  
35 years ago I overhaul a 1206 when I work for a dealership and he bought the tractor and took it to a guy to repaint it here used Riversand to sandblast with and the first time the guy that bought tractor changed oil ran about two hours and it spun rod bearing and when I tore it down it had sand in the oil and when they sandblasted it in the filter on those canisters it Musta had some behind there when he put the filter back up there the sand got in there from the build up when they sandblasted it by the backside of the canister

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Today's Featured Article - Search For Spares - by Anthony West (UK). Following on from the aquisition of the old Fordson F, I was very much in need of spares. As a novice though I didn't appreciate the fact that there were so many Fordson tractors made, that all the other makes seem rare by comparison. As far as I was aware a fordson was a fordson and it was only through trial an ... [Read Article]

Latest Ad: John Deere 116W wire tie baler in working condition comes with side hitch and chute TEXT if interested [More Ads]

Copyright © 1997-2020 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy