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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Gas question

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_mark_

01-07-2017 04:57:42




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I have a 1941 Farmall H.It doesn't get ran alot since I live in the city.I filled the tank all the way up about 14 month's ago.Took it on a 2 hour tractor drive and a couple tractor show's. start and run it every week or two.Still have about a quarter tank.With this type of usage should i keep tank almost empty. Or keep more gas in it and put a stabilizer in it.




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Tom Fleming

01-08-2017 16:54:41




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
300guy, you and I agree more than we disagree. Note that I stated, "I know what ethanol can and will do to seals and rubber components if they are not designed to withstand it". So, modern components will withstand ethanol just fine. Older components that were NOT intended to run with ethanol will deteriorate and fail. So, again, you and I agree more than we disagree.

Water in any fuel system component whether it be zinc, aluminum, or zamac, they do NOT like water.

I am backing away from this topic, and will just add it to the list of things not to discuss on YT: Oil, Spark plugs, Lead additive, ZDP, and now ethanol fuel additives....................

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Tom Fleming

01-08-2017 15:55:43




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
Not really, most if not all 2-cycle oils have additives to effectively do the same thing to ethanol that the ethanol additives do.

Interesting enough, if you take time to read the warranty info on most new small gas engines, they tell you NOT to use any fuel over 10% - 15% ethanol, and if you do , it voids your warranty.

To each his own. I know what ethanol can and will do to seals and rubber components if they are not designed to withstand it. I also know that ethanol is hygroscopic. If you let ethanol infused gasoline set for too long, it will absorb moisture from the air. Ethanol fuel stabilizers are designed to reduce the phase separation of the ethanol and the fuel in the presence of water/ water vapor.

Now, if you are running fresh fuel through the system on a frequent basis, then no stabilizer is necessary.

So, to all who believe that ethanol stabilizers are not necessary for long-term storage of fuel: do as you please, I just disagree.

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300guy

01-08-2017 16:41:17




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 Re: Gas question in reply to Tom Fleming, 01-08-2017 15:55:43  
I have worked on thousands and thousands of small engines and the 10% ethanol does not damage seals and gaskets. If they did most engines would not last more that a few hours. The oils do not prevent ethanol damage, but their EGD or FD ratings are what is required to meet warranty requirements. Alcohol burns at a much lower temperature and requires more heat to ignite it. Therefore it is added to gasoline to raise the octane rating, plus the fact it burns very clean which is why they have added it to gasoline. The problem with it is the water absorption and then the corrosion the two make on aluminum. If you have ever tore a two cycle engine down and found the inside parts a gold color, the engine has been run with old stale fuel. About 95% of our work is fuel related and almost all of it is water in the fuel, thus the good stablizers to reduce the water/alcohol effects.

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hd6gtom

01-08-2017 09:47:36




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
I run ethanol in everything including my Echo chain saw that sits for months. never failed to start 2 or 3rd pull. don't use anything like stable, just the gas right out of the pump and good 2 cycle oil in the saw.



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pete 23

01-08-2017 15:35:25




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 Re: Gas question in reply to hd6gtom, 01-08-2017 09:47:36  
You just ruined all the arguments against ethanol used in today's gasoline so we will have to start all over again.



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300guy

01-07-2017 20:10:30




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
By the way, I forgot to say that Fresh Start also counter acts against the effects of alcohol, like water absorption, water and alcohol damage on aluminum, and related problems.



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300guy

01-07-2017 20:06:26




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
I work on all types of small engines and our shop has used the product Fresh Start, which is marketed by Briggs and Stratton for over 20 years. I have been using this product since 1990 in everything I have and have never had any problem with fuel in my 300, ATV's or any other mowers and chain saws. Many of these set for months with fuel in them. I do not like Stabil because we had nothing but problems with in when I worked on outboards for many years. On person brought in a snowblower just after Christmas with the worst smelling fuel I had smelled for months. He bought the fuel just before Thanksgiving of that same year and used SeaFoam. Since then I will use SeaFoam for a carbon cleaner in a chain saw, etc but not as a stabilizer. There is a VP Fuel out there that comes in quart cans (or larger volumes) for small engines and is suppose to be guaranteed for a year opened. We are just starting to try it this fall and will see how it goes. All manufacturer's recommend generally 87 octane, exception several chain saws with high compression engines. Aviation fuel if I am not mistaken is a 100 octane gas and can cause hard starting problems. The older tractors seem to run on just about anything. We use to get rid of the old stale fuel we took out of small engines by running an H continuously for several days at a guys acreage. By the way with the Fresh Start, you only use .5 bounce per 2.5 gallons for short term storage or 1 ounce for long term (over 12 months??).

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Tim Steele

01-07-2017 17:51:36




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
I use 100 LL Avgas in all my small engines and vintage motorcycles as a storage fuel and in all my premix 2 stroke stuff year round. It is cheap insurance and beats cleaning catbs and replacing parts damaged by ethanol...



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DeltaRed

01-07-2017 07:52:24




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
For tractors that sit and see occational use,I shut off the gas and run the engine till the carb is dry/empty.Work the choke when it starts to sputter to get all the gas out.Let the tractor quit on its own.For things that only run 'once' a year(cultivateing tractor,combines,etc),I also drain the tank.Dont use,never have used any kind of gas 'preservative'.



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Phil Tibbetts

01-07-2017 07:34:41




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
For what it is worth, I hate the new gas and buy Aviation gas for my 2 cycle equipment and anything that sits a lot. Some airports here in Maine have auto fuel without ethanol. Where I use fuel with ethanol I put a shut off in the line and run the carb dry when I shut it down if I'm not sure when I will use it again. I also add fuel conditioner and a little 2 cycle oil to the Ethanol gas. So far so good. I did burn up 3 chainsaws with ethanol before I started using aviation fuel.

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heavyhaulertoo

01-07-2017 06:55:11




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
for an engine that is not run much you can use straight aviation gas it will stay good for three or for years just better gas like it was years ago.



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D Slater

01-07-2017 06:09:51




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
Probably depends on area weather. Some parts of USA tanks can sit for years and no rust inside. Lot of sweating in my area in November to April. Even in a closed building if you open the doors it doesn't take long for surfaces to start getting wet a certain times. Like to leave my tanks full. If not used try to start once a month and move around to lube things. No problem leaving in 10% ethanol without stabilizer from November to April for me. Sometimes doesn't run quite as smooth in spring until start of use and more fuel added. Gas without ethanol is a good bit higher in my area, 50 cents or more higher than premium is the reason I don't use it.

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fbh44

01-07-2017 05:50:28




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
I have a 1950 H, it gets run very seldom. I keep tank full, keep Stabil in it, keep carb emptied and dry. I run just ordinary cheap-o unleaded gas. No problems.



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NEKS

01-07-2017 05:38:20




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
I would put premium gas in it that does not have ethanol in it. They are putting ethanol in some premiums also. Of all the gas stations in my area only one has premium with out ethanol. I know the truck driver that delivers fuel there. If you know the owner or operator they could look at the bill of lading the truck driver leaves from the terminal and it will say on it if it has ethanol in the premium.

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Tom Fleming

01-07-2017 05:19:46




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
[img]http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/luc/10670/image/3/[/img]



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Tom Fleming

01-07-2017 05:19:25




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
Oooops, wrong image on the Lucas:



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Tom Fleming

01-07-2017 05:15:03




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 Re: Gas question in reply to _mark_, 01-07-2017 04:57:42  
If you decide to leave fuel in it, quarter tank or topped off, I strongly suggest a fuel stabilizer similar to Stabil. Personally, for tractors I own that are going to sit for more than a month, I like to drain the tank and the carb (unless it is the summer show season). for things like my generator, I use Stabil in them.

Others may disagree, but I have experienced too many issues with leaving the "new" gas in anything over a few months.

My preferred brands are pictured here:

third party image

Or

third party image

My opinion, your choice........

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leon

01-07-2017 05:52:22




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 Re: Gas question in reply to Tom Fleming, 01-07-2017 05:15:03  
My thoughts and practices too, exactly. I don't use SeaFoam as I understand it's just more alcohol.



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