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68 International 3414 loader issues

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farmerdan30

12-18-2016 09:13:52

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Good morning everyone. I've spent the morning reading up on this series industrial tractor. I've come to understand there are two pumps controlling loader, powers teeing and backhoe. Also two valve banks front for loader and rear for backhoe. They areven both plumbed in line from what I gather before oil returnsto the reservoir.

I am looking at this 3414 to use on my acreage. So I don't need anything fancy. Just needs to work. From what I am tolooking. ( I have not seen it in person yet) this tractor runs good, hoe works good,but the loader will not lift. Bucket works but is slow.

He had the front valve box out to be repaired, but didn't help. He said pumps are good.what else would it be?

Any advice would be awesome. He is asking $2500. Fair price?

Thank you.

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BarnyardEngineering

12-19-2016 08:36:27

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Re: 68 International 3414 loader issues in reply to farmerdan30, 12-18-2016 09:13:52

I vaguely remember reading somewhere about some weird relationship between the pumps. One pump controls the loader and the backhoe swing or the stabilizers, or something weird like that, while the other controls the rest of the backhoe.

Doubtful it's air locked. Usually hydraulics with air trapped in them are just spongy.

Also doubtful that a loader boom cylinder is leaking that badly internally. It would not affect the bucket curl. You said it was slow.

My guess is one pump is bad. That's just going off logical thinking and basic knowledge of how hydraulics work.

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JDEM

12-18-2016 15:48:13

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Re: 68 International 3414 loader issues in reply to farmerdan30, 12-18-2016 09:13:52

How does he (the seller) know the pumps are good? I heard the same story when I bought my 3414. Mine ran OK when cold but hydraulics got very weak when hot. I am not even sure if it was better when I first got it and just got done wearing once I tried to dig a ditch with it. I will not bore you with all the details. I have over 40 years experience as a HD mechanic, so I am supposed to know something. I am also at times gullible and took the seller's word that pumps were OK. Ends up both my pumps were worn out. Once I found the hydraulic filter was missing, I just assumed the pumps could not possible be in good shape and I was correct. I bought two new pumps. Put them on along with a filter and it has run like a new machine ever since. 3414 gas loader with a 3121 backhoe. I got the main pump here in the USA (same pump as Deere, Ford and Case use). Smaller engine-mounted pump that runs the steering and hoe-swing came from England.

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farmerdan30

12-18-2016 18:15:02

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Re: 68 International 3414 loader issues in reply to JDEM, 12-18-2016 15:48:13

Im assuming because other systems are still working. Is where the idea pumps are OK comes from.

Any easy way to identify if lines are hooked up wrong?

I've never torn into a cylinder is that somthing a diy guy can repair himself? What's the cost on a repair like that?

I was wondering if it could be the valve bank for the hoe, even though that is working, since it is plumbed together.

Are valve banks hard to repair? I pulled a a valve out of my old snowplow, put new one rings on it works great. Is there a lot more mechanical parts inside them?

Thanks guys for you answeres.

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JDEM

12-19-2016 15:43:24

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Re: 68 International 3414 loader issues in reply to farmerdan30, 12-18-2016 18:15:02

The o-rings for the spools in the control valves for the loader and backhoe have nothing to do with things working or not. They are just there to catch residual oil. High pressure sealing is done by the metal spool sealing against the metal bore it rides in. There are other things that can wrong. All sorts of cartridge-valves that plug in sideways that can break (but that is rare). Most are near impossible to buy anymore anyway. Have you checked the hydraulic tank to see if the filter is there? If is missing, you can assume both pumps are worn out. Easy to check. Just take the hydraulic reservoir cap off and look in. Big filter takes up the entire filler hole IF it is there.

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farmerdan30

12-20-2016 10:47:03

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Re: 68 International 3414 loader issues in reply to JDEM, 12-19-2016 15:43:24

Thank you for your answeres. I will definitely check for a filter. Can these old valve boxes be bypassed with newer ones of parts are unavailable? What kind of costs am I looking at? Pumps still available and costs there? With an undiagnosed issue what is this thing really worth?

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JDEM

12-20-2016 11:55:00

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Re: 68 International 3414 loader issues in reply to farmerdan30, 12-20-2016 10:47:03

About $1000 total for two new pumps. Power-steering/hoe-swing pump came direct from England when I got mine. Converting to different valve-banks is not feasible although I doubt they are your problem. If you change the front (main crank-driven) pump, you will likely need to fabricate a new drive for it too. Another $200 just in parts. If you can't do this work yourself - the machine is not worth the effort even if free. If you CAN do the work, might be an OK buy for $1500, assuming the engine and drivetrain is OK.

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farmerdan30

12-19-2016 08:14:06

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Re: 68 International 3414 loader issues in reply to farmerdan30, 12-18-2016 18:15:02

Ok guys, I found out this tractor was bought non running. So it had sat a while. This guy has it running good now, he wasn't expecting the hydrolic issues. He pulled the front valve box put in new Orings seals. Put it back in and no change.
I am not completely knowledgeable of how hydrolics work. Is there somthing stuck from sitting, what and where?

Or could it simply be air locked? And how would you bleed it?

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leroy in ne

12-18-2016 11:55:05

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Re: 68 International 3414 loader issues in reply to farmerdan30, 12-18-2016 09:13:52

hyd. cylinders have blown cups and are bypassing internally?

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leroy in ne

12-18-2016 14:08:35

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Re: 68 International 3414 loader issues in reply to leroy in ne, 12-18-2016 11:55:05

another possibility is the hoses weren't hooked up right when the valve was worked on. there fore the loader isn't working

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farmerdan30

12-19-2016 08:16:33

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Re: 68 International 3414 loader issues in reply to leroy in ne, 12-18-2016 14:08:35

Thanks.

I've added some info and asked a couple more questions if you want to take a shot at it again?

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