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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super m cam gear

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sony224422

11-03-2016 08:46:16




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So it sounds like my super m cam gear is broken or loose, I know the bolster and such have to come out, but does the cam have to come out too? Or can I heat it up and put it on with the nut? If I have to take the cam out is it worth getting a 450 cam for a little more power? I know the parts supersede the old part and now are the same part numbers but I think I saw they give a little more power. Any other options here? And to press on the new gear can I just put it on in my own press? I'm assuming the cam shaft won't bend if it's just getting pressed on correctly

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sony224422

11-03-2016 16:20:56




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 Re: Super m cam gear in reply to sony224422, 11-03-2016 08:46:16  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see



Thank you all for the suggestions. I forgot I have a rig for splitting the tractors and I think I can attach it to the frame rails to support the tractor and tie up the front bolster to my rafters in my garage or a cherry picker. Then I can roll the rest of the tractor back and get to work on it like that. I think I will replace the gears, should I do the idler gear too? I don't want to do this again haha

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The tractor vet

11-03-2016 14:45:14




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 Re: Super m cam gear in reply to sony224422, 11-03-2016 08:46:16  
Well i will throw om my nickel, Just pull the ft end off the tractor , then loosen the frame rails a bit and remove the ft damper then the timing cover . you can remove everything with a good puller set . If the key way is not damaged then your good to go . If it is damaged then ya got more work to do . Don't worry about putting everything in time before you start as when you align the marks up when you go back together it will be in time . Myself i would install a new CRANK gear along with the CAM gear. NOW here is a little tip on how to install the gears with out pressing . Find and old pot metal pan that is deep or make a trough that is around a foot square and around six inches deep , fill with oil ( i use hy tran ) and heat the oil and part till ya get around 250-300 degrees and everything gets stabilized then remove the piece and slip it on and allow to cool I install the crank gear first then the cam gear.

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glennster

11-04-2016 05:42:26




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 Re: Super m cam gear in reply to The tractor vet, 11-03-2016 14:45:14  
vet, i use a presto fry daddy to heat the gears. sneek in the house and get some of swmbo's cooking oil, and deep fry the gear for a while!! works good!! (dont get caught!!)



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The tractor vet

11-04-2016 19:04:01




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 Re: Super m cam gear in reply to glennster, 11-04-2016 05:42:26  
are you out of your mind here ?? Me use something that belongs to the War Dept. Walking point in Nam was safer then usen something that belongs to the War Dept. I have and old deep fryer that is about a foot square and about 8 inches deep that i carry in my service truck. Keep in mind here my wife is a real ANGLE ----------------She is always up in the air HARPING about something .



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D Slater

11-03-2016 14:10:20




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 Re: Super m cam gear in reply to sony224422, 11-03-2016 08:46:16  
Remove distributor cap and turn engine so front pulley lines up with pointer and rotor is at or near # 1 terminal on cap. Remove hydraulic pump. You can see a little of cam gear through hole. May be able to make sure it's loose or broken before removing other parts. If deciding to skip that 3 bolts attaching pump to front cover need removed anyway. Lower one to engine can stay in. Oil pan overlaps the front cover, oil pump needs removed if cam is removed anyway. After supporting tractor, remove left frame rail to bolster and to engine bolts. Loosen the 4 bolts at rear of frame rail. Don't need loosen a whole lot. Remove top radiator brace rod, upper and lower hose. Two ways to do steering shaft after coupling at U joint removed. Remove key and screw shaft out the front. Or remove worm shaft support at gauge plate and leave worm shaft in bolster. Whatever if power steering in center. Remove bolster and radiator together if you have support. Bolster is usually stuck some in the frame rails. Reason for loosening one side, pry it away from being tight on bolster, then the other side may need a pry after bolt removal. Usually support bolster or leave front tires on floor and move the one frame rail off the edge of bolster myself. Remove front crankshaft pulley. With pan off a clean block of wood can be used to block crankshaft when removing pulley nut. Don't forget bolts in steel plate with heads to rear going into front cover and the governor bolts. Cam condition and what you want wood dictate replacing with a later cam, after years it could already have a different camshaft. IH said about a 1.5 horsepower gain using a 48196DA or DB camshaft. If new gear is made to IH latest specs, It was machined to fit tighter on shaft. They specified to support cam behind front lobe when pressing gear on. Cam wear with loose gear may make that a non issue. Heat and using a support from below that doesn't damage cam from oil pan area can help. Have ground down oversized keys for worn keyway if needed, try to figure out wear to place cam back in the same time if fixing keyways. If using a right hand thread came try to make sure nut won't loosen after installing gear. Getting rough putting gear on with cam in engine makes it hard on oil pump parts and can push block plug loose.

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sony224422

11-03-2016 10:42:48




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 Re: Super m cam gear in reply to sony224422, 11-03-2016 08:46:16  
Oy what a pain. I will just order the new gear and hope for the best haha. I don't want to tear into this engine more than I have to. I rebuilt my H out of 2 H's and that was enough adventure for me haha.



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John M

11-03-2016 10:26:01




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 Re: Super m cam gear in reply to sony224422, 11-03-2016 08:46:16  
Once you get to the front cover and its off, just take the nut off, the gear will probably come off pretty easy since its loose. IF the part the gear goes on, and as Jim mentioned the slot for the key is good, no need to go further. Just install the gear, and again as Jim mentioned, light taps will get it on, or if you want to heat it up in the oven thats fine too. If you change the cam, youll need resuraced lifters as well.

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BarnyardEngineering

11-03-2016 10:24:57




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 Re: Super m cam gear in reply to sony224422, 11-03-2016 08:46:16  
I am pretty sure the cam gear is a slip fit on to the camshaft.

At the very least yours will be now, even if it's not supposed to be.

If it were a press fit it wouldn't have gotten loose. What's happened is the nut that holds it loosened up. Common issue.

This happened to the M back when I was in high school. The cam gear slipped right off the shaft. It didn't look too awful bad so we put it back on, put some loctite on the threads, and tightened the nut until it was "farmer tight." Been that way for close to 25 years now.

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sony224422

11-03-2016 10:04:27




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 Re: Super m cam gear in reply to sony224422, 11-03-2016 08:46:16  
How can I get the gear on safely then? The heat method?



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Janicholson

11-03-2016 10:16:12




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 Re: Super m cam gear in reply to sony224422, 11-03-2016 10:04:27  
I would make a tool to push it on that had 1"X 14 threads per inch on the inside of a thin walled pipe with a 2 inch plate welded to it. I would drill and tap 3 holes that intersect the cam gear hub and thread them for 5/16X18. I would screw this onto the cam threads and use the bolts to push the gear on. (it might easily tap on using a small plastic mallet) Jim



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Janicholson

11-03-2016 09:33:26




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 Re: Super m cam gear in reply to sony224422, 11-03-2016 08:46:16  
The cam could be removed with effort. The lifters must be held up so they do not fall onto the lobes when removing the cam. The cam journal bearings are worn in with the existing cam. If the key in the cam is good, I would not change it. The gear can be installed with out pounding on the gear and pushing the cam rearward. It definitely needs to be a very close fit, and cannot be at all loose on the shaft before the nut is tightened. The use of locktite is a given. Jim

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