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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

case sprocket loose, nut ok??

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greg m

08-30-2003 17:05:53




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On my case 310e I have one sprocket loose, but the nut seems tight and not stripped inn any way. The sprockets are the new style solid. What tool do you use to remove the nut? I have read past posts and I may need a spacer when using these sprockets, nut sure what i am looking for. Any info would be appreciated, Thanks Greg




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Terrance

08-31-2003 08:50:45




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 Re: case sprocket loose, nut ok?? in reply to greg m, 08-30-2003 17:05:53  
The new style sprockets are 350 sprockets not 310 sprockets the shoulder on the back side is shorter than a 310 sprocket,if used without a spacer the sprocket will be loose and slide in and out on the axle ,eventually ruining the axle ,sprocket and nut. Berco use to sell the spacers and probably still does they were not expensive around $6.00 last I knew, you can also make your own by measuring the difference in hub depth between the 310 and 350 sprockets,thaT difference is the thickness of the spacer.That nut needs to be very tight as it is all that holds the sprocket on there is no taper on a Case 310 -350 sprocket.A 1" or larger impact may be strong enough to tighten it securly,but I prefer to use a knock wrench.I make a knock wrench by cutting the it out of 1/2"-3/4" plate,you want a nice tight fit on the nut so it doesnt deform the nut. I believe the Case manual calls for using 1500-1600 FT/LBS of torque to tighten the nuts,also make sure the small allen lock bolt is backed off when you tighten the nut then tighten it down tight after the axle retaining nut is tight otherwise you will never get it truely tight as it will losen up after a short time of use. Hope this helps Terrance

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Deas Plant

09-01-2003 13:13:19




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 Re: Re: case sprocket loose, nut ok?? in reply to Terrance, 08-31-2003 08:50:45  
Hi, Folks. As stated in my previuos post under this thread, I am not Case-experienced, so I have learned something today. I never thought I would come across a crawler tractor manufacturer who was dumb enough to use straight splines in this application and certainly not with the engiring knowledge available from the middle of the last century and even earlier. Then Case bought/inherited the problem and never fixed it. I think there is a message in there somewhere. I'm just not quite sure what the message might be but it's probably something about providing the best possible product for your customers. Thanks for the lesson. You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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Terrance

09-01-2003 16:43:23




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 Re: Re: Re: case sprocket loose, nut ok?? in reply to Deas Plant, 09-01-2003 13:13:19  
Deas, I agree that it is a little on the backward side to have never fixed the problem on the small Case crawlers. I have owned several of them in the past and still own four, and have never had a problem with the nut coming loose and ruining a sprocket or axle, I check them every once in a while. I have seen and repaired many that were loose,and some that were bubblegummed together with weld. But even the best engineered equipment still requires periodic maintainence and many of these smaller Case crawlers had very little and were lucky if they even saw a greese gun in their lives.I have purchased over a dozen in the past and NOT ONE came with the Case supplied sprocket wrench nor the track adjusting wrench, small wonder the nuts were loose. I know where there is a 310 that has been used in the woods almost everyday since new in 1958 in a small logging operation and it still has tight sprockets on the origional axles, and some of the origional rolls as well.Once a week it was checked for loose bolts and it was greased every day,it doesnt look pretty, I don't believe there is a square inch of sheet metal that isnt dented but it is in great mechanical shape.It is all in how they are taken care of, if they didnt see a wrench or grease gun for 3000 hr they were usually found out back on a fence line parked. Hope this helps Terrance

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Deas Plant

09-02-2003 04:30:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: case sprocket loose, nut ok?? in reply to Terrance, 09-01-2003 16:43:23  
Hi, Terrance. I agree completely. I have a couple of posts on here regarding Euclid TC 12 crawlers. They were another case in point. Although I never had anything to do with them myself, I have spoken to several people over the years who did and they all said the same thing about them. Do the maintenance PROPERLY and you got a good run out them. Let it slip and you soon had an expensive pile of junk. You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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george md

08-30-2003 19:40:33




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 Re: case sprocket loose, nut ok?? in reply to greg m, 08-30-2003 17:05:53  
Greg, 310 uses straight spline , not tapered and that was probably their biggest mistake. Once the sprocket wears there is no way to tighten it. Large socket to remove and install nut , preferably air wrench (large- 1 inch or bigger). Spacer ,I think is for using 350 sprocket on 310. Email me and maybe I can help. george



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r_d97

08-30-2003 19:16:08




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 Re: case sprocket loose, nut ok?? in reply to greg m, 08-30-2003 17:05:53  
Greg, This unfortunately is very typical for the Case 310. What has most likely happened is the splines on the axle and/or sprocket have worn out or torn each other off. Case received the straight spline design from the smaller old ATC crawlers when they merged in 1957 and for some reason never updated it. Basically the only real fix is to replace the axle and sprocket. Some people weld the sprocket to the nut and weld the nut to the axle. This is only a really poor band-aid at best. Edward

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Deas Plant.

08-30-2003 18:28:04




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 Re: case sprocket loose, nut ok?? in reply to greg m, 08-30-2003 17:05:53  
Hi, Greg. I am not Case-experienced but I AM crawler-experienced and there is not a lot of variation in the way sprockets are fitted. If you have movement in the sprocket and the nut is still tight, it may already be too late for a simple spacer. Almost all crawler drive sprockets are either tapered spline or - far more rarely - tapered shaft with a keyway -- or three -- and are usually press-fitted. All the nut does is act as a retainer to help stop it coming loose. The REAL work is done by the tapered fit and the splines or keyway(s). Running the tractor with a sprocket loose for any length of time is going to wear the taper and splines quite quickly, making it difficult to get a good press fit and just as hard, if not harder, to keep it tight. Fix the problem ASAP, before working the machine any further. Drive shafts and sprockets don't come cheap for any crawler. If your's are worn, there are people around - if you enquire long enough and thoroughly enough - who re-build such items using an electrolytic process back to exact dimensions on site. You would have to remove the sprocket from the shaft but I doubt you would have to remove the shaft from the tractor. I first came across this process back in the late 70's when I had six truck front stub axles that were slightly rusted. They were for a caravan/mobile home that I was building and were not installed at the time but the man who did the job said he could have done them in place just as well as removed. And he hardened it as he did it. (The stub axles were from an English Bedford J3 and the caravan/mobile home weighed 5 1/4 tons empty without the 100 gallon water tank in place.) If all else fails and you are REAL desperate, you can put the sprocket back on with some good-quality an-aerobic metal filler such as QuickMetal or a similar product. DON'T be bashful with the product and DO keep an eye on it ALL the time, until you have to remove it again, to see that it hasn't come loose again. This is at best a 'politicians' fix -- band-aid treatment. To get the nut loose - and re-tighten it, check an earlier thread on 'Tool Talk' for some posts about 'rolling' your own large sockets. See link below to Jumbo Sockets. Hope this helps. You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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back40

09-02-2003 06:31:26




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 Re: Re: case sprocket loose, nut ok?? in reply to Deas Plant., 08-30-2003 18:28:04  
Deas Plant is right, all the nut does is act as a retainer to keep the sprocket from sliding off the shaft. The real work is done by the splines themselves. So if you have wear in the spline area between the shaft and the sprocket, overtightening the nut will do absolutely no good whatsoever. The sprocket nut is supposed to be tightened to 700-800ft lbs according to the repair manual. Brand new sprockets cost $200 while axle shafts are $175(aftermarket) or $260(Case). Why not just replace them with new parts rather than applying a temporary bandaid that may cause further damage to other components later on? Spending approximately $400 is a cheap (and correct) fix for a piece of equipment like this in my opinion.

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