JD 450C hlr trouble in reverse only

Dkc923

Member
Needing some help with a 450c I recently purchased. I bought the dozer knowing it needed steering clutches and brake bands. I just finished changing steering clutches and brake bands on both sides and now it turns perfect just as she should. The problem I have now is that it has no power in reverse. It will move if its in gear 1 and on flat ground but don't even attempt to climb a hill. I went through the entire sequence of clutch and pressure adjustments (followed Roy Suomi's post on how to do it). Ive managed to get my free play just right and my pressures dialed in to 185psi all except for reverse. Its 185 in neutral, L,and H but in reverse its about 125. Ive changed hydro filter and cleaned screen in side of transmission. Changed fluid twice to get it good and clean because the old fluid had a lot of water in it and was milky. I just wanna get this thing working like it should so I can use it. Ive enjoyed working on it but its starting to get frustrating because I want to be able to use the thing. My assumption is its gotta be something in the transmission at this point with my pressure only being low in reverse but I just need to know what to do next. Im assuming pull the top cover? Once top cover is pulled what do I look for? I sure would appreciate any advice.
 
Hi Y'all.. When you shift the HLR shifter into reverse with the engine off, do you hear the spring loaded detent click.. There should be a
clicking sound as if going thru other gears of the HLR.. If not, take a file and elongate the HLR shifter gate on the shifter console. You may
not be going into reverse fully. With full pressure showing in gear, it should move as normal. The only other thing would be, if the reverse
clutch pack is totally worn out. Any leakage should reflect on pressure shown in reverse when at half throttle or better. Unless the mod hasn't
been done , there is a neutral in the gearshift console. You can run it in that neutral range while checking pressures. Also always lock the
brake when fiddling with transmission controls while engine is running.
 
Thanks so much for the reply Roy. You're just the guy I was trying to get ahold of. Ive read so many of your post that have helped me a ton this for in my journey. I am indeed getting a pressure drop in reverse only.
only getting 125psi in reverse where other two gears and neutral are both at 185 psi. I disconnected the shift linkage yesterday and pushed it all the way down which would be reverse just to make sure my linkage
adjustment wasn't off causing it not to go into reverse. Nothing changed. With the drop in pressure I'm getting in reverse only I'm assuming my issue is somewhere in the transmission I just don't know what to look
for. Thanks again man for your help.
 
Assuming its the seals in the hlr is that something that I can rebuild myself or will I need to buy a remanufactured one? I know there is also a manifold in there that directs the oil flow that has o'rings in it. Maybe
that could be the issue? I know that the engine has to come out to get the hlr out but what about to pull the manifold? I plan on pulling everything back off the top to be able to pull the top cover this afternoon.
Anything I can see through the top cover that may show what my issue is?
 
The seals on those HLR clutch packs are steel interlocking sealing rings. The manifold at the rear is very likely grooved from the steel rings.
Another issue is when re-installing the clutch pack assembly, the manifold sometimes will cock slightly and unsnap the sealing ring. This causes
more rapid wear internally in that manifold. Those can be a bear if you're not handy. When installing them, you have to support the clutch pack
assembly, you have to lift and support the 2 lower counter shafts and move them rearward at the same time as the clutch pack assembly. After 40
plus years of working on these , I got the time down to 18 hours complete.. You have to start at the front and work your way back to get them out
to repair the clutches. Those clutches are rebuildable , just lay the out on a table as you take them apart, look them over and reassemble using
new seals and bellville washers. watch where the shims are, and don't mix them up. The lower shafts have them and the manifold has shims at the
rear. Check endplays on all shafts. We're here if you need help.
 
I miss stated the clutch pack seals are rubber rings, The manifold seals are steel interlocking rings. You will need use of a press to press the clutch drums off and back on the main shaft in order to replace worn clutch plates , seals and thrust washers. It also wouldn't hurt to replace all the snap rings on the main shaft too. , as some get deformed when removing them..
 
Man I sure appreciate the help. Im gonna start pulling it back down tomorrow morning. I'm try to be positive telling myself at least I don't have to break the tracks again and pull the steering clutches. Ive never pulled the engine off of it yet but it doesn't seem too bad. It's me and my uncle working on it together in his shop so having help will make everything a little easier hopefully. Would you go ahead and replace everything in the manifold as well since I'm already gonna be in there? Any advice is greatly appreciated. If you would rather text or call me or whatever since sometimes its a little easier to communicate like that than on here I certainly wouldn't mind. My cell number in 9857506537. I'm down in Louisiana. Feel free to text or call or whatever. The forum won't let me log in on my cell for some reason so I can only reply on here when I am at home.
 
Engine removal is a piece of cake. pull the hood, nose , bellypans, drain hydraulic oil , remove cooler lines , hydraulic pump lines, fuel line ,
battery cable, throttle cable, unplug wiring at firewall. 4 bolts [5/8] 15/16 heads , 2 from front , 2 from back. lift engine out with radiator
and hydr. pump attached. Then side bolts front of clutch housing , spacer on starter side, cooler lines and elbow on side of clutch housing, and
on , and on.
 
No way to do it without removing the bell housing correct? Someone welded one of the side bolts that goes through the frame rail on the right side. That should be fun to get out... Also I know there are aftermarket clutch disc available but as far as o'rings and seals is that something I would need to get from Deere or just go aftermarket with those as well?

This post was edited by Dkc923 on 07/04/2022 at 06:19 am.
 
Bell housing has to come out in order to remove that trans front cover.. Lots of luck with those welded bolts.. Tells me someone left the bolts
loose and used the dozer for stumping. You may need to Heli-Coil those bolt holes back to original size. Don't use grade 5 or less bolts.. I'd
get the rings and seals from Deere
 
Made some progress this morning. Got everything pulled off the top and the top plate off the transmission. Also went ahead and pulled the engine. Do you know in which order the hlr clutches are in the transmission on the shaft? From front to back I'm curious which pack is in the middle because from what I can see there is no lining at all left on the the disc. The front and rear pack look to still have decent linings on them. There was definitely some water that sat in it for a while as there is some rust spots in the transmission. Also, when we got the engine out the splines on the input shaft that go inside the engine clutch are worn really really bad. Definitely gonna have to replace that shaft. The throw out bearing is in pretty rough shape as well. I'll probably go ahead and rebuild the engine clutch while I'm in there and replace that bearing. I took several pictures and am gonna upload them on here so you can see if I can figure out how to do it. Thanks again for the help.
 
Some pictures of the the fun.
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This post was edited by Dkc923 on 07/04/2022 at 12:58 pm.
 
I usually take the dashboard assembly off instead of the tanks. With the seat frame taken out , there's plenty of room to work in there. The ones I always hated was the early loaders. I'm too blessed to fit between the loader frame and tanks. The B's and C's weren't as bad.
 
I'm sorry I don't have a tech manual anymore. I don't remember which clutchpack is which. Been a few years since I've been into one.
 

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