IH 3300B wont crank over

hoffy628 · Nov 26, 2021

I have an odd one that I am hoping I can get some input on.
I have a 1978 IH 3300B Skid loader with a Wiscolnsin VG4D engine.
The issue is it wont crank, no clicks, nothing. It started while I was turning it over, it just stopped while cranking. I had the started rebuilt and replaced the solenoid, but I am not sure if it was the correct solenoid.
I can jump the solenoid and it will start, I havce replaced it with two used ones and a new one but still have the same issue. here is the odd part, the solenoid has the two big posts and two small ones, one small one has the yellow wire that goes to the ignition, the other post is empty. If I take a test light and touch it to the empty one the machine will get stuck with the ignition engaged and wont quit until I pull the battery cable off (does this with the key on or off)
I have also replaced the ignition with no change.
I am completely at a loss and would appreciate any input on this.
Thank you for reading.

Jim.ME · Nov 27, 2021

We can't see your machine, your descriptions and terminalogy are all we have to go on. I think it may help to better define a few things.

You said it stopped cranking while it was turning over. What is the background? Is this a machine you have had, been using for a while, and it has been starting ok? Or one you just got; that you are trying to get started for the first time?

What solenoid does it have? Delco type, starter mounted solenoid or remote mounted "Ford" type solenoid? If remote mounted, is it mounted on sheet metal or heavier frame/engine metal? What solenoid did you purchase?

You said you replaced the ignition. Do you mean you replaced the ignition switch or you replaced the ignition components (points, condenser, coil, etc.)? There is a good bit of difference in the two replacements.

How are you jumping the solenoid? Connecting big post to big post with a jumper or energizing the small start terminal with a jumper?

You said it won't crank, no clicks, nothing. Then you later said it starts if you jump the solenoid. So, is the better description: it doesn't crank using the ignition switch but will crank if the solenoid is jumped? This points to a problem related to the wiring and/or switching between the switch and solenoid. This can include neutral safety switches if it is equipped with those.

I am guessing you don't have a manual for it. Is this correct?

hoffy628 · Nov 28, 2021

(quoted from post at 05:41:16 11/27/21)
We can't see your machine, your descriptions and terminalogy are all we have to go on. I think it may help to better define a few things.

You said it stopped cranking while it was turning over. What is the background? Is this a machine you have had, been using for a while, and it has been starting ok? Or one you just got; that you are trying to get started for the first time?

What solenoid does it have? Delco type, starter mounted solenoid or remote mounted "Ford" type solenoid? If remote mounted, is it mounted on sheet metal or heavier frame/engine metal? What solenoid did you purchase?

You said you replaced the ignition. Do you mean you replaced the ignition switch or you replaced the ignition components (points, condenser, coil, etc.)? There is a good bit of difference in the two replacements.

How are you jumping the solenoid? Connecting big post to big post with a jumper or energizing the small start terminal with a jumper?

You said it won't crank, no clicks, nothing. Then you later said it starts if you jump the solenoid. So, is the better description: it doesn't crank using the ignition switch but will crank if the solenoid is jumped? This points to a problem related to the wiring and/or switching between the switch and solenoid. This can include neutral safety switches if it is equipped with those.

I am guessing you don't have a manual for it. Is this correct?

Sorry for the lack of information.
It ran out of gas and I was trying to start it after putting gas in, up to that point it had been running just fine.
I get nothing at all when trying to start it,no clicks or anything.
I get power to the solenoid on the wire that goes to the ignition, but it does not energize the big wire that goes from solenoid to starter.

I replaced the ignition switch, but not any of the the other ignition components.
all things point to the solenoid to me but I replaced it with two used ones off of a Ford dump truck, and then with a new one. Just have no clue how I could get power to the solenoid with the ignition wire and to the big post on solenoid from the battery but not energize the starter.
it does have a 4 post solenoid but only 1 of the smaller ones is used. could this be an issue?
Thanks

Jim.ME · Nov 28, 2021

What is the brand and part number of the solenoid you purchased? Not all solenoids are configured the same. Some are grounded base and others aren't. Some the second small terminal is for a resister bypass wire, some it is for a ground wire. Resistor bypass you don't need to use it, if it is for a ground you do. I am not having any luck thus far finding the online parts book for it at the Case IH site to see what the part number of the OEM solenoid was and if it can be crossed to another brand.

Your original had 4 terminals (2 big and two small) and used three of the four terminals (the two big ones and one small one), is that correct?

Does this start with a key switch or a push button? There is a wire from the ignition switch, correct? Does that wire have power/12 volts only when the key is turned to the start position?

When the key is turned to start does the second small terminal have power at that time?

Thinking in terms of the way a Ford type solenoid looks. It you are facing the solenoid, mounting base away from you, the battery cable is on the left big post and the starter cable is on the right big post. The wire from the ignition switch start position is in the left small terminal, with nothing on the right-side small terminal. Is that how you have it?

This post was edited by Jim.ME on 11/28/2021 at 02:27 pm.

Jim.ME · Nov 28, 2021

You didn't answer this before. How did you "jump the solenoid"? Please explain how you did this, it could mean a couple different things.

hoffy628 · Nov 29, 2021

(quoted from post at 15:31:11 11/28/21)
You didn't answer this before. How did you "jump the solenoid"? Please explain how you did this, it could mean a couple different things.

Sorry, I thought I did tell you I jump the two big terminals to jump the solenoid.
I did make a discovery, keep in mind one of the two small terminals did not have anything connected to it orginally. I hooked a ground up to the empty terminal and it resolved the issue. I am not sure if the solenoid was getting ground where it was mounted or what but it does work with that terminal grounded.
do you see any reason I cant just add a ground wire for that terminal?

I appreciate you assistance.

jm. · Nov 29, 2021

No or yes you bought a solenoid that requires a ground for the case. Just put you a good wire on
that spade and ground it and you are good to go.

Jim.ME · Nov 29, 2021

(reply to post at 20:13:38 11/29/21)

If I've followed correctly, there was the original solenoid, a couple from Ford trucks, and the new one you purchased. Which one are you talking about currently, the one you purchased? As I posted, not all solenoids are the same. It sounds like the one you are asking about may have an insulated base and would need a ground wire on th second small terminal. If it is the new one, the place you got it should be able to tell you if it is a grounded or insulated base. With the brand and part number the info may be on line. Is it currently mounted so that the base has a ground but still needs a ground on the small terminal?

hoffy628 · Dec 1, 2021

If I've followed correctly, there was the original solenoid, a couple from Ford trucks, and the new one you purchased. Which one are you talking about currently, the one you purchased? As I posted, not all solenoids are the same. It sounds like the one you are asking about may have an insulated base and would need a ground wire on th second small terminal. If it is the new one, the place you got it should be able to tell you if it is a grounded or insulated base. With the brand and part number the info may be on line. Is it currently mounted so that the base has a ground but still needs a ground on the small terminal?[/quote]

I have only tried the new solenoid. I wont have a change to look at it more until the weekend. Thanks again for your input I really appreciate you, sometimes something as simple as this can be a nightmare,.

wore out · Dec 3, 2021

There's at least nine types of generic starter solenoids, if the counterman at the parts store is "good" he should be able to bring up information as to the internal connections of your specific solenoid.

"Circuit 1" is about the simplest, and all that is needed for a simple system where the key switch/start switch send power to the solenoid to engage it and crank the engine.

If a "starting bypass" is needed you move down to "Circuit 3", and so forth.

IH 3300B wont crank over

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