TD9 Coil Wiring

SeanAdj

New User
It goes against everything I am use to from working on cars, so I am confused trying to get this thing started. Over the years it has been hatched and chopped so I am not sure what it is suppose to be anymore. The coil seems to be shorting out because it gets HOT, too hot to even touch. Currently there is a wire that leads from starter switch, over to the oil pressure gauge, down to a distributionblock then to the neg post of the coil. There is another lead that goes from the neg post to the intake manifold. On the positive side of the coil goes down to the magneto. Does this seem right? Is there an issue in the magneto that is causing the coil to have a closed circuit the whole time and thus overheating it?
 
If it has a distributor you need the
battery coil, if it's a magneto all you
need is a kill (ground) wire from the
terminal on the mag to the grounding
switch, no external coil
 
Looking back at your pictures you posted the other day, it appears you have a distributor ignition, not a magneto. I think that crawler was positive ground so the negative (-) post of the coil should receive power from the ignition switch and the wire from the positive (+) post of the coil goes to the distributor. I don't know why it would need a wire going to the intake manifold. What does it hook to on the manifold?

As far as the coil heating, it is just the same as a car with a points type distributor. If the points are closed (or there is a short in the wire between the coil and points) there is a path for current to flow through and heat can develop.
 

here are some pictures, trying to resave them to get the file size down
mvphoto62068.jpg
 

I know the ing wires themselves could be causing a huge about of resistance and causing it to heat up, but I did not think it would do that without it running. The wire to the manifold make no since to me, I know that starter is positive side ground but I do not know if the wiring would have to carry over into the ignition also. This is a backwards wiring form anything I've worked on so I'm lost
 

The only thing that is inline before is a voltage regulator from the best I can tell.

I took the old one into the parts store and cross ref with this as a replacement. I forgot about them being oil filled, I know there are epoxy filled ones that is high performance and meant to take vibration. Looks like that will be getting switch out again.

Is there a source for a complete parts list, and wiring diagram so that when I am replacing parts I can try to cross ref the original part number rather then what is one it which could very well be the wrong part
 
Have you checked the points are not stuck closed,make sure the points are good and the gap set correctly, with the points open check the them for grounding,ie use a test lamp with one lead on the wire going into the distributor and the other to a power supply,the lamp should not light,if it does there is a short in the insulation of the points,also check the condenser.
AJ
 
Voltage regulator has NOTHING to do with the ignition circuit. Are you sure what your calling an V.R. isn't a ballast resister?
 
Ballast resistor

cvphoto56394.jpg


Voltage regulator

cvphoto56395.jpg


Voltage regulator is used for generator
charging system. Also make sure you take
apart all wires and clean every
connection down to shiny metal including
the ground. Corrosion will cause wires to
heat up and not work well.
 
that is not a magneto! and if the coil is getting hot then the power is not being cut when switched to diesel. once running on diesel there
is no ignition power.
 
You asked. "Is there a source for a complete parts list, and wiring diagram so that when I am replacing parts I can try to cross ref the original part number rather then what is one it which could very well be the wrong part."

You will likely need to purchased old printed copies of the parts book, service manual, and Operator's manual from eBay or else where; as you find them. There may be some reprints available from the YT Store or other vendors, possibly a member here has some to sell. Have the info and serial number from the crawler tag to help be sure you get the right ones.
 

That is part of my issue the tag has been removed so I don't know the serial number, is there another location for it?
 
You should be able to date it by the
casting numbers on the block and
transmission. It won't get you the serial
number but it should get you pretty
close. A quick search on google of how to
find age of international tractors
without serial number should bring up
some info on it.
 
Your coil is wired for a positive ground
system,also you do not need a ballast
resistor on that coil.All you need is one
wire from ignition switch to the switch
in the front of the intake manifold then
from manifold switch to the negative side
of the coil. Manifold switch is closed
when decompression lever is in start
position and open when changed to the
diesel position. Make sure your battery
is hooked up positive post to ground.
Your machine would have been a positive
ground system originally.
 
I have both the OEM operators and a service manual for a TD-9 that I would sell.

email is open for details.
 
v

There will be a serial number stamped on the engine block. It will be directly above the injection pump immeadiately below the mating surface with the head. However this number will only get you in the ballpark because those engines were used in several applications. Another thing you can use to give you an idea of when the machine was made are casting numbers. They look similar to this 2-9-Q. In this example the machine part would have been cast on March 9th, 1947. These numbers can be found on the underside of the mainframe (tub), on the top transmission cover, the final drive housing covers, the front trnsmission cover and sometimes they are on the castings that are bolted to the track frames. Of course the parts may have been cast several months before they were used.
 
yes,... pull the cover off the front of intake over the generator and have a look at stuff. dont need a manual for that. that is the cutout
in there. and if it has an on off switch make sure you shut the switch off once on diesel! that is the only way the coil can get hot. the 2
minutes running on gas sure wont get the coil hot. just follow and make sure you have no power feeding coil is all once running on diesel.
cant be that hard to find.
 
it is wired correct in the picture. and there is a cutout switch in the intake manifold i have been trying to get through to him but no
answer as to what he has found, thats what i hate give a bunch of info then post goes cold! never hear a thing after.
 
Thank you for your responses I do apologize for the delay in answering back myself, for some reason I was not getting notifications that people were actually responding so I myself thought the thread went dead.

A little backstory also this Dozer is not located on my properly currently, I'm purchasing it from an estate that the husband passed away so I had very limited time to work on it. I was attempting to get it running so I could make transport easier but finally bit the bullet and hired a heavy equipment hauler that can tow it onto a trailer. It will be arriving at my house by 11 a.m. today.

Thank you for all the information of where to locate the serial numbers and soon as he gets here I will look in those locations and right back with what I find.

Dwyrin seems like it's hot wired all the time to the coil so I will have to redo that wiring. There is a ignition cut-off switch on the dash but currently it's bypassed. I'll check with an ohmmeter to ensure it's actually working and then rewire accordingly. It appears right now that it is getting negative all the time from the starter, and also positive closing Loop through the exhaust manifold all the time. So that is why I'm sure as soon as it's hooked up the coil starts overheating because it's positive and ground constantly there for dumping its charge and not able to fire to the distributor.

I ordered some parts online from Steiner including a new coil points condenser cap rotor ignition wires. The only thing I couldn't source from them is spark plugs but I pulled one from the Block when I last worked on it and it seemed very clean no carbon buildup so I'll try to at least get it running with those.

Those came in last night oh, so I will install those as soon as the Dozer gets here and give it another try starting it and also locating those serial numbers. I'll check back in with an update tomorrow
 
Forgot to mention on my previous post that a manual ignition coil differs from an electronic one even though they look the same and the connections are the same,now that you bought the machine you should go over to the IH site Red Power magazine,you will need to register to post on the site but those guys are real IH fans and have a lot of useful advice, you will find them at the link below.
AJ
http://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/index.php
 
UPDATE:

I installed all of the new parts today and still have no spark from the coil. New parts include points, condenser, cap, rotor, coil.

With a test light connected to the engine block and the probe on the (-) side of the coil the light comes on (tested ok)

With the clamp on the (-) side of the coil, and the probe on the (+) of the coil and crank the light will flash (tested OK)

But once I check for spark from the coil there is no spark. Nothing at the plugs, but it seems it wants to start on diesel. I do not understand why it will not create a spark, doesn't seem to make sense.

On a side not I do not know what gap to set the points at, I tried several different gaps but no sure if that is my issue. I did make sure the gap was far enough to break contact and make the test light flash while cranking.

Any thoughts ??
 
(quoted from post at 17:44:24 09/25/20) UPDATE:

I installed all of the new parts today and still have no spark from the coil. New parts include points, condenser, cap, rotor, coil.

With a test light connected to the engine block and the probe on the (-) side of the coil the light comes on (tested ok)

With the clamp on the (-) side of the coil, and the probe on the (+) of the coil and crank the light will flash (tested OK)

But once I check for spark from the coil there is no spark. Nothing at the plugs, but it seems it wants to start on diesel. I do not understand why it will not create a spark, doesn't seem to make sense.

On a side not I do not know what gap to set the points at, I tried several different gaps but no sure if that is my issue. I did make sure the gap was far enough to break contact and make the test light flash while cranking.

Any thoughts ??

Try .020"gap on the points.
 
Set the gap to .020" and it seems like it wanted to fire just wont go all the way over. Tries to start with a bit of ether but again wont completely fire.

Adjusting the chock or the knob with a P cast into does not seem to affect anything. Pulled the number one plug to see if I could get it TDC to reset the timing in case I was off when reinstall the distributor but with the angle of the head and plug I can't tell and I can not get my thumb over the plug hole to fell the compression. My compression testing kit does not have an adaptor that fits this style plugs.

Is there not typical air filter on these? I took the breather off to see if it was staving for air and I see the oil in the bottom of the large drum like cylinder below the diesel throttle. Following the intake back from the carb it goes to that but does not have a direct path for the air so I am guessing it pulled through the oil as a trap and uses the oil as the filter? Is that correct?

Battery is back on charge and have to get some more starting fluid tomorrow.

This is killing me grrrrr
 
I think they had a timing pointer on the front pulley,the engine is not conventional,the engine has a high and low compression status,this is achieved by a third valve in each cylinder,when the valve is opened the compression is allowed into another chamber thus lowering the compression to run on gas,when the valve is closed the compression cannot get into that chamber thus increasing it as the area is smaller and the pressure is high enough to ignite the diesel,I would not be using starting fluid on that engine whatsoever due to its reputation for cracking,if the gas side is right it will start without it,an old trick was to put a half of spoonful of gas down each plug hole and then try but you do need to have things right ignition timing,spark and plugs etc.
AJ
 

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