Welcome! Please use the navigational links on your left to explore our website.

Company Logo Shop Now
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 
Marketplace
Classified Ads
Photo Ads
Tractor Parts

Community
Discussion Forums
Project Journals
Tractor Town
Your Stories
Show & Pull Guide
Events Calendar
Hauling Schedule

Galleries
Tractor Photos
Implement Photos
Vintage Photos
Help Identify
Parts & Pieces
Stuck & Troubled
Vintage Ads
Community Album
Photo Ad Archives

Research & Info
Articles
Tractor Registry
Tip of the Day
Safety Cartoons
Tractor Values
Serial Numbers
Tune-Up Guide
Paint Codes
List Prices
Production Nbrs
Tune-Up Specs
Torque Values
3-Point Specs
Glossary

Miscellaneous
Tractor Games
Just For Kids
Virtual Show
Museum Guide
Memorial Page
Feedback Form

Yesterday's Tractors Facebook Page

Related Sites
Tractor Shed
Ford 8N/9N Club
Today's Tractors
Garden Tractors
Classic Trucks
Kountry Life
  
Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

580k fuel problem

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author  [Modern View]
Dune Country

08-05-2020 14:55:15




Report to Moderator

I was using my backhoe this morning and it just quit, like someone turned the key off. it is a 4-390 engine with a CAV pump.
I bled the filter and pump using lever on the lift pump and no air, bleeder open turn it over and get good flow, lift pump is ok.
Took the small cover off of the side of the injector pump and the shaft is going around, replaced cover and re bled.

loosened injector nuts and no fuel,

THEN I noticed the wire had fallen off of the fuel solenoid, yea I know :roll:
Anyway hooked it up and still nothing out of the lines.

checked voltage and 12v koeo 8.5v when cranking, hooked up a jumper wire straight to battery still nothing.
When touching wire to solenoid I can hear it, not a sharp click but it is moving.
did I damage anything trying to bleed it with no power?

is there a hi pressure bleeder on the pump?

what am I missing?

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
AJ.

08-13-2020 15:29:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
Glad to see you are mobile again,those pumps will not tolerate any dirt or water, to change the input shaft of the transaxle it's a major operation,the input shaft carries the forward and reverse clutch packs,you sure the U/J's are good as well as the engine mountings,I never had any customers with that compliant but their machines would not have the hours done that yours has done it's probably 30 years old,it's entitled to be a bit worn.

AJ

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dune Country

08-13-2020 13:02:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
Well I got her running, service guy said gunk from sitting and 'couple of plungers stuck. $700 but at least its done. Going to install the pre filter tomorrow.
AJ, you seem to know alot about these tractors. The splines on the transaxle input shaft are wore resulting in a vibration. I installed a new yoke and it helped but I'm going to need to tear into the trans soon. It's hard to tell from the schematic,s , is this a tough job?

Is the input shaft a pinion shaft?

TIA

AE

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
AJ.

08-12-2020 02:16:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
That should have the Carraro trans-axle,dip stick and filler through the floor behind the seat,the inline filter was fitted between the fuel shut off valve and the feed pump,the filter casing was metal,it was there to protect the feed pump,the parts book shows the filter as part # D145357,hope your pump repairs cheaply.

AJ



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dune Country

08-11-2020 15:39:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

starts with a J

no pre filter, just add a standard in line?

Pump is done going after it tomorrow

AE



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
AJ.

08-07-2020 17:50:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
I would advise you to fit new filters including the inline one before the feed pump that's often missed,good old workhorse the 580K,the owner drivers liked them nice and simple with no computer or fancy electrics to worry about,has yours the Borg Warner shuttle or Carraro, or easier does the serial # start with an A or J :lol:
AJ



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dune Country

08-07-2020 15:00:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
I got the pump out ok, used a steering wheel puller on the gear and it's out.
I grabbed the old filter and set it upside down on some cardboard, got maybe a tbl. spoon of rusty water out of it.
I'm thinking that when I first bled everything the increased flow might have brought some water up.
Taking it to Boise Monday for what they tell me is a 2 day turnaround.

Will keep you posted.
Thanks again for the help.

AE

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dieseltech

08-06-2020 18:59:51




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
You don't need to pull the valve cover, or time engine at all. There's a key for gear/shaft alignment, and should be a scribe line on pump flange and timing case. You will need two metric bolts and a plate to push the shaft loose from the gear after shaft nut is off.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
AJ.

08-06-2020 17:08:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
You can see why I doubt whats gone wrong,the engine could not be running with the wire off the solenoid,now with the plunger out there is no fuel at the injectors so what's happened,it is highly unlikely that two issues occur at once,anyhow if you are taking the pump off all I do is put it to the mark in the timing window,the edge of the large snap ring to line on the rotor,the gear is keyed to the shaft,you will need to go in from the front to undo the nut,a piece of plate with two holes drilled to bolt it to the gear is needed to brake the taper,the gear will stay in mesh so timing is not lost.

My AJ is Austin Justin, after dad and saint's day I was born on.

Good luck

AJ

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dune Country

08-06-2020 15:01:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
I was a mechanic for 20 years and a excavation business for 30 and have worked on everything I have ran, just not much I pump experience.
Well, The manual shut off is indeed spring loaded but I did move it back and forth still no joy.
I'm going to pull the pump in the am.
Looks like pull the front valve cover and get the #1 rockers loose by turning engine to verify TDC and put the pin in the pump gear and pull the pump. Got a box full of caps for the lines.
By the way my sons nickname is AJ (Alvin Joseph)

Thanks again guys :>]

AE

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
AJ.

08-06-2020 13:32:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
The metering valve could be stuck in the stop position but that should not happen with the electric stop,you sure you did not move the manual stop lever when you were messing with the pump,look in front of the throttle spindle where it goes through the cover,there is another spindle there with a lever on it that is connected to nothing,that is the manual stop,it should be spring loaded to the run position,move it back and forth a few times and try again,if no joy it looks like you will have to have the pump looked at or have a competent mechanic look at it for you.

AJ

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dune Country

08-06-2020 12:55:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
Thanks guys for the input.
I charged the battery overnight, hooked up the jumpers to my PS, removed the plunger in the solenoid, bled again per recommendations and have been trying and trying to bleed, having to wait for the starter to cool down, still no fuel to the injectors.

I have ditches open up, well is going in and needs a ditch and the tree service is due and we need the hoe to pull with.

Next step, pull the pump?

I am at a loss here.

AE

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
AJ.

08-06-2020 07:34:09




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
Forgot to mention to check all the levers are in the neutral position there was a guy on the Case forum that stopped his engine on a fairly new machine and when he tried to start again it would not fire up,after an injector pump,injectors,starter and battery he found that one of the jack leg levers was stuck due to his lighter falling in on top of the valve chest jamming the lever in the up position and he did not notice it,that was an expensive accident.

AJ

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
AJ.

08-06-2020 02:52:10




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
The Case 580K is key start,when the key is turned on to one the pump solenoid is energized,go to two the pump and starter is energized,it is not possible to crank the engine over with the key without energizing the pump solenoid,8.5 volts is a bit low and indicates the battery isn't great,probably going down due to all the starting attempts,you need the battery in peak condition to get a start once you let air in the system,charge the battery or use jumper cables.

AJ

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dieseltech

08-05-2020 18:28:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
The CAV DPA pumps MUST have the solenoid energized to bleed fuel to injectors with line nuts loose, some Bosch VE pumps will bleed fuel to injectors with solenoid off as there's a cut on the back side of the plunger. Some have a 24 Volt solenoid too. The early solenoids can be removed, then pull the plunger and spring and re-install the solenoid body to rule out solenoid/electrical system. If engine then bleeds/starts OK the top front pump cover lever can be used to stop engine. Neighbor put a stop cable on his as he was tired of having 24V solenoid failures. The late type solenoid with the red/orange rubber tip can't be taken apart.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
AJ.

08-05-2020 17:19:02




Report to Moderator
 Re: 580k fuel problem in reply to Dune Country, 08-05-2020 14:55:15  
There was probably nothing with the fuel system and the wire coming off was the reason for the engine to stop,the CAV pump is a SOB to bleed,try this open the two bleeders on the pump,prime the system till air free fuel comes from the bottom bleeder and close it,prime again till the top one is air free and close it,prime on till the lift pump lever goes limp,loosen each injector pipe at the injector a couple of turns,throttle on full,crank the engine over till fuel spurts out at the injectors,tighten up the nuts and try for a start.

Good luck

AJ

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2020 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy