Dead Cylinder

thebunns

Member
The #1 cylinder on my -14 has quit firing. I swapped injectors and blew out the line going to it but nothing helped. What's next---a valve stuck open? If so, is there some kind of gunk I can dump in the oil in an attempt to free it up?

Vic
 
You could pull the valvecover and verify that no pushrods are out of place (from a sticking valve(s)) and that the valves for that cylinder are moving freely.
 
(quoted from post at 10:47:04 10/07/18) You could pull the valvecover and verify that no pushrods are out of place (from a sticking valve(s)) and that the valves for that cylinder are moving freely.
I'm thinking that's what is necessary but a shot of something in the oil would be much easier.

Vic
 
why dream about miracle oil additives???. you must verify if you have compression on that cyl for it to fire. your asking about stuff before verifying what the problem is. plus when did it start missing? when was it run last? lots of information not here.AND... no just dumping an additive in the oil dont fix a thing.
 
Is this machine a IH TD14 with a gas start diesel,if so it could be the miss is caused by the compression lowering valve for that cylinder having an issue,adjustment,sticking,not seating properly or burned out.
AJ
 
(quoted from post at 17:29:23 10/07/18) Is this machine a IH TD14 with a gas start diesel,if so it could be the miss is caused by the compression lowering valve for that cylinder having an issue,adjustment,sticking,not seating properly or burned out.
AJ

"Is this machine a IH TD14 with a gas start diesel?"---Yes, it is! Thanks for the tip. I'm headed in that direction.

Vic
 

I believe those valves are operating properly as the motor runs fine on gas. As is being suggested here, I will lean towards the starting valve.

Vic
 
When the motor runs on gas those valves are held open to lower the compression,to run on diesel they are closed to increase the compression,if a valve was leaking in the compression would be down on that cylinder and not high enough to ignite the fuel,what have you coming out the exhaust,have you checked the blow by,when you had the injector out did you check it on line to see the pump is pumping,watch out for the spray if you decide to check that.
AJ
 
(quoted from post at 13:01:13 10/08/18) When the motor runs on gas those valves are held open to lower the compression,to run on diesel they are closed to increase the compression,if a valve was leaking in the compression would be down on that cylinder and not high enough to ignite the fuel,what have you coming out the exhaust,have you checked the blow by,when you had the injector out did you check it on line to see the pump is pumping,watch out for the spray if you decide to check that.
AJ
The valves I was referring to in the previous post were in response to "Bob" talking about push rods, etc. but I didn't work it correctly. I know the purpose of the start valves. I had previously stated that fuel came out of the bleed valve visually the same as the other three injectors. It snowed here last night so this morning I plugged in the block heater to warm the tractor up so that it would turn over easier in diesel mode to check the start valve blowby. I'll probably get to it tomorrow & report my findings.

Vic
 
(quoted from post at 14:21:18 10/08/18) If the dead cylinder is getting diesel you ought to be getting white smoke in the exhaust
Any time it's not firing on all cylinders the exhaust isn't clear. What does that prove, other than fuel is getting through the injector?

Vic
 
Eliminate the valves by warming it up stop it,remove the plugs and see if that one is wet with diesel,turn the engine over in diesel mode and see if compression comes from the plug hole,if you get compression from the plug hole that suggests the valve is letting the compression into the gas chamber,it is not easy to say what is wrong that is why the guys are asking what is happening,for instance about the fuel,if it's injecting it and is not burning it where is it going,could be anything from broken rings,hole in the piston,how did this come about,why I asked if you tested the injector was the injector will bleed from the feed pump pressure but to push the fuel through the nozzle it would be in the region of 2000 psi to atomize it.
AJ
 
(quoted from post at 18:11:05 10/08/18) Eliminate the valves by warming it up stop it,remove the plugs and see if that one is wet with diesel,turn the engine over in diesel mode and see if compression comes from the plug hole,if you get compression from the plug hole that suggests the valve is letting the compression into the gas chamber,it is not easy to say what is wrong that is why the guys are asking what is happening,for instance about the fuel,if it's injecting it and is not burning it where is it going,could be anything from broken rings,hole in the piston,how did this come about,why I asked if you tested the injector was the injector will bleed from the feed pump pressure but to push the fuel through the nozzle it would be in the region of 2000 psi to atomize it.
AJ
Let's reiterate what I've said (and not said) in previous posts---The injector has been checked ($71) and then swapped with another known good injector in the #1 spot. The tractor runs fine on gas, thus eliminating the possibility of a broken ring, piston hole or (I'll throw this in) a disconnected rod. I'm waiting for the engine to warm up via the block heater so that I can check what's happening in the spark plug hole by turning the engine over in the diesel mode. When that happens, I'll let you know.

Vic
 
That does not eliminate the possibility of broken rings as when the motor is running on gas full compression is not been used and it can run good,,when I mentioned test the injector on the line it was to see if the pump was injecting fuel at high pressure,if the pump has a sticking plunger or broken spring it could cause a miss,,there could be fuel coming from the bleeder on the injector from the pressure of the feed pump,you have to think outside the box with those engines as they are not conventional,in my youth they were fitted to everything IH from the forties to the sixties,good enough of an idea but,the heads were weak and lots of them cracked.
Keep at it
AJ
 
(quoted from post at 02:26:30 10/10/18) That does not eliminate the possibility of broken rings as when the motor is running on gas full compression is not been used and it can run good,,when I mentioned test the injector on the line it was to see if the pump was injecting fuel at high pressure,if the pump has a sticking plunger or broken spring it could cause a miss,,there could be fuel coming from the bleeder on the injector from the pressure of the feed pump,you have to think outside the box with those engines as they are not conventional,in my youth they were fitted to everything IH from the forties to the sixties,good enough of an idea but,the heads were weak and lots of them cracked.
Keep at it
AJ
Mine has already been cracked (too hot) & welded. Right now, because air is blowing out the #1 spark plug hole, I've removed the hood, valve cover & rocker arm assy. I set a crow bar on top of the #1 start valve cap & pushed on it. It felt a bit sticky but after shooting WD-40 into the spring, seemed to move a bit better. Now it compresses the spring the same as the other three. I reinstalled the rocker arm assy. and it seems like there is more air blowing out the hole than previously felt. I'd like to know if I need to remove the cap and tap directly on the valve. And, if I pull the cotter pin, does the spring send the cap flying or is it controllable? And after that, am I going to be able to reinstall the cap and line up the holes for the cotter pin? I'm "kinda" waiting for an answer before proceeding.

Vic
 
Sorry I can't remember what the setup is under the rocker cover as I have not seen the inside of one of those since the 1960's,any thing that comes to us for head or valve problems the head will be taken off,I understand you trying to fix it from the outside as it labour intensive to remove the head,measure the height of the valve and compare it with one of the others,if it is not as high then the stem may have carbon build up not allowing it to close,if it is the same hight the valve may not be seating properly or even be burned,go over to the IH site Red Power the guys there are working on those tractors daily and someone may know a trick or two to get you going.
AJ
http://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/index.php
 
(quoted from post at 05:37:00 10/12/18) Sorry I can't remember what the setup is under the rocker cover as I have not seen the inside of one of those since the 1960's,any thing that comes to us for head or valve problems the head will be taken off,I understand you trying to fix it from the outside as it labour intensive to remove the head,measure the height of the valve and compare it with one of the others,if it is not as high then the stem may have carbon build up not allowing it to close,if it is the same hight the valve may not be seating properly or even be burned,go over to the IH site Red Power the guys there are working on those tractors daily and someone may know a trick or two to get you going.

Thanks for the reply! I'm learning about these start valves bit by bit. I am waiting on a response from one of the guys who seems to have knowledge of the subject.

Vic

AJ
http://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/index.php
 
They sound more complicated than they really,each cylinder has three valves,two of the valves are conventional exhaust and inlet both operated by the camshaft,the third valve changes the compression of the engine,the valve is operated manually,when the valve is open the compression area is now bigger and the compression is less enabling the engine to run on gas,to run on diesel the valve has to be closed hence increasing the compression to a point where it gets hot enough to ignite the atomized diesel fuel,if that valve or either of the other two has an issue it will cause a miss,trouble with all engines everything that wares or burns out is inside,I always had a soft spot for IH tractors they always had a nice look to them and all in all were not a bad machine in their day.
AJ
 
(quoted from post at 04:41:14 10/14/18) They sound more complicated than they really,each cylinder has three valves,two of the valves are conventional exhaust and inlet both operated by the camshaft,the third valve changes the compression of the engine,the valve is operated manually,when the valve is open the compression area is now bigger and the compression is less enabling the engine to run on gas,to run on diesel the valve has to be closed hence increasing the compression to a point where it gets hot enough to ignite the atomized diesel fuel,if that valve or either of the other two has an issue it will cause a miss,trouble with all engines everything that wares or burns out is inside,I always had a soft spot for IH tractors they always had a nice look to them and all in all were not a bad machine in their day.
AJ

Well, here we are again! That unstuck valve didn't last long. It's stuck again. So back in I go! I think I can help it a little this time (after I get it working again) by leaving the lever in the diesel position after shutting down the motor. I haven't been doing that. That way, when I go to start it on gas, I'll move the lever and force the valve to have to move at least once. I also bought a bottle of some kind of "miracle oil" that I'll dump in the pan.

Vic
 
Question: How long does it take to free up a stuck starting valve with 100 lb. pushing an air hammer?

Answer: Less than 5 seconds!

I took the valve cover off and tapped on the cap with a screwdriver & hammer. It felt like it was bottomed out. I was able to do that without removing the rocker assembly. I put the air hammer to the cap, pulled the trigger & the valve popped up into place. I've now left the main lever in the diesel position until the next time I start it. I also added a quart of Marvel Miracle Oil to see if it will help lubricate the top of the motor. I also found an easy way to get the hood out of the way---just pull the trigger on the winch.

Vic

mvphoto27563.jpg

[/img]
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top