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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum


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Phil H

02-05-2018 08:32:35

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Replacing my 188 engine in my Case 450 crawler with a completely rebuilt 207. I would like to go to a full synthetic diesel engine oil, since the synthetics have a lot less friction, and everything runs a lot cooler. ROTELLA 15/40 seems to be the best to start with. Has anyone out there had any experience with that oil?

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david from kansas

02-14-2018 10:51:55

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to Phil H, 02-05-2018 08:32:35  
Been using Mobil 1 diesel oil in my 4020 that I use in the winter. Does it have any advantages? No way to be sure but I believe it cranks over better in sub freezing temps.

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David G

02-08-2018 06:36:43

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to Phil H, 02-05-2018 08:32:35  
I would use a good break in oil, then make the choice to go or not.

Personally, I have seen better economy with synthetic, so "assume" it has lower friction, but there is a cost associated with it.

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02-06-2018 09:37:18

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to Phil H, 02-05-2018 08:32:35  
I generally switched to synthetic oil in my cars (5W-30) and my diesel truck (5W-40). My farm equipment, I still use 15W-40 conventional diesel engine oil. I would have to say the reason I have not switched the farm equipment is because I do not operate that equipment in the extreme cold weather in the winter. The tractors and the combine typically are run, beginning in March on into November. I do not feel I have much to gain in that equipment, since most of the time, these engines are started up and run for a lengthy duration during their operation. I do like the improved "pumpability" of the synthetic engine oil in cold conditions, but again, it is pretty rare the tractors and the combine are started and operated at temperatures below even 30 degrees F.

With that, I do like the improved starting of our automobiles and my diesel truck during the winter months. I do believe the engines turn over and start better with synthetic versus conventional oil in the crankcase. I bought a 4 year old car back in 2007. I traded that car for another car in late 2015. That was the first car I started using synthetic oil in, and all but one car has been switched over to synthetic engine oil. I never had to replaced the battery in that first car, and I suspect that may be due to the easier starting of the engine. As I recall, the battery in that car still was the original battery. It is looking like I am needing to change the batteries in my diesel truck as they are now 10 years old, and likewise in another car I had purchased, which is now 12 years old.

I also believe the synthetic oil is a bit more "forgiving" in running over on an oil change. My wife and daughter do not watch the oil change tags closely enough, so their cars are likely to be run past my typical service interval of 5000 miles, which tends to follow more along the line of severed duty. Having change engine oil in our cars and my truck, I appreciate the thinner viscosity of synthetic when I have changed oil in very cold conditions, by seeing how it pours out of the jug.

Do I think synthetic oil is a better choice for our vehicles? Yes I do. Do I think the life of an engine has been significantly increased through the use of synthetic oil? I cannot say for sure. I have one car approaching 300,000 miles on the odometer, and had another we got rid of when it had 312,000 miles on the odometer. Both have had conventional oil in them since we originally purchased them used. Neither really consumed oil to any extent. The one we have now has always leaked a bit, but it has been less than a quart between changes. I haven't had another car we kept quite that long, and used synthetic oil in the engine. I haven't driven any of our vehicles in "hard driving" conditions or pulled a trailer to any great distance to really put an engine oil to the test either.

I switched to synthetic and I am satisfied with the results in our vehicles. Perhaps some day I might in my farm equipment, but not at this time.

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02-06-2018 05:39:11

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to Phil H, 02-05-2018 08:32:35  
"Lot less friction?" You believe that? Show me some test results that actually show that. Real synthetic oil has some proven advantages like higher heat durability and more stable viscosity. I have yet to see test results showing the "lot less friction" thing.

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Phil H

02-06-2018 10:42:57

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to JDEM, 02-06-2018 05:39:11  
One other thing, every jet engine uses synthetic oil, there you put your life on the line.

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02-06-2018 12:25:17

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to Phil H, 02-06-2018 10:42:57  
Synthetic oil used in jets is not the same we usually get for cars and trucks. True synthetic oil was first used by Hitler in his military. The US military adopted it for jet engines because of its high heat durability and stable viscosity.

You did not mention what oil you are using and what is the Flash Point? I bet it is no higher then many conventional petro oils.

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Phil H

02-06-2018 14:18:27

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to JDEM, 02-06-2018 12:25:17  
Sounds like you answered your own question, whether synthetic oil is better than petro based oil. Synthetic oil can be made to do just what you want it to do. Synthetic oil is used in reciprocating engines as well, and for some of the same reasons. Try starting a recip. with 50w oil in -20 temperatures, after diluting it with avgas, then you will appreciate synthetic oil even more. Everything has it's place, and when I was line driving dello 30 was the oil 90 percent of all the truckers used in their engines, and it still is a excellent oil, and now it is dello 15-30. By the way Hitler never developed anything but hatred, scientists developed the synthetic oil, but I get your meaning. I will go with science every time, when you are paying the bills, I go with what works. By the way what do you think about the Frantz filter? I used one on my Cummins and instead of the oil being black in 4 hours after an oil change, it was the color or honey, after a days running. This is another thing that works, believe me, it pays you back, big time. Like I said I go with what works!

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02-07-2018 05:34:18

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to Phil H, 02-06-2018 14:18:27  
Hitler ordered his scientists to come up with a petro alternative. I think it is fair to say he was responsible for its production.

US Military adopted its use. Later a military guy sold to the public as Amsoil.

Much of the oil sold now over-the-counter does NOT have the characteristics of the true synthetic oils like still used in jets or in race cars. Thus why I asked you what specific oil you are talking about.

Some petro-based Shell Rotella oils have higher heat durability then many oils sold as "pure synthetic."

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Phil H

02-06-2018 10:40:45

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to JDEM, 02-06-2018 05:39:11  
Temp gauges on both front and back rear diff. showed a lot lower temp. I used to be a line driver, and went every where you can imagine, and believe me, you watch every gauge you have in the cab. When you do it for a living you pay attention to what that equipment tells you and it shows you, right down to the penny. I didn't go around looking for some literature, I listened to what other drivers were saying, and saw for my own eyes the difference.

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02-05-2018 11:07:32

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to Phil H, 02-05-2018 08:32:35  
Don't start out on a fresh engine with synthetic oil, the rings will never seat. Use a straight weight dino oil,or Deere sells a break in oil just for this purpose. Once you have 75-100 hours on the break in oil, and any oil usage has stopped,then switch over to your choice of synthetic.

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Phil H

02-05-2018 12:19:33

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to MSM, 02-05-2018 11:07:32  
Found a Deere dealer, and they carry the oil, and they said they use it in the shop on all new and rebuilt engines. Thanks for the information, very much appreciated.......Phil H

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Phil H

02-05-2018 11:46:33

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to MSM, 02-05-2018 11:07:32  
That is what I was wondering. I think you are right, I can see if there is a Deere rep near me, but I was wondering if DELO 400 would be a good choice before switching to a full synthetic, If I can't get a break in oil.

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02-05-2018 09:48:09

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to Phil H, 02-05-2018 08:32:35  
I use Rotella 15/40 in my '75 John Deere 4030 and my '06 dodge ram 2500 and never had problems with the oil. What I think, its a little expensive but love it. Definitely a oil to use for diesel engines.

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Phil H

02-05-2018 11:54:39

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 Re: SYNTHETIC DIESEL ENGINE OIL in reply to JCtractorboy, 02-05-2018 09:48:09  
I use the synthetic oil in my suv and my pickup, but they have been driven for several thousand miles before the switch. I think I will follow the suggestion from others, to use a good oil for a break in oil, then switch to the synthetic, to allow the rings to seat. I agree that it is expensive. I used to use it in the rear ends of a KW tractor and the difference in temperatures was amazing. The synthetic oil was a lot cooler running, which means a lot let less friction, and wear. That sold me on the synthetic oil.

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