You Fella's that won't believe me!!!

John Saeli

Well-known Member
Had to get the 730 CK Diesel out today. Thermometer said 40 degrees, but the 730 was in the lean too under the barn, in the shade, and realistically was probably in the low 30's there, given the cold we've had. Today was a warm up. She had new batteries installed last Fall. 3-5 seconds on the starter, and no heat & she was purring. I keep harping to you fella's, DON'T BE GRINDING VALVES & SEATS!!

CASE says that for every .005 of valve recession, you lose .1 of compression. On the '30 series, if the intake & exh. are each recessed .010, that brings the ratio down to 14.6 to 1.
 
I believe you John, Over the years the tractors that had new seats and valves installed started great. Sometimes it was difficult to get the customer to agree to spend more dollars even though the valves did not HAVE to be replaced. They grumbled about the bill occasionally, but never complained it was hard starting, Rod.
 
John,I own a 730ck that was bought new and it's hard starting in cold weather.By using a tank heater and intake heater it's no problem.It has never been worked on. My 1030 will start down to 0 if I use the intake manifold heater first.
 
I put brand new heads on my 830 diesel about 2000 hours ago, it has always been a great starter, I run a single big 8-D battery, it will start down to about 0 on the manifold heater.
 
I just plug my 30 series tractors in if I need to start them during cold winter weather. I like the idea of the engine oil being warmer and flowing to lubricant the cold engine. Once it gets near zero Fahrenheit, I am quite happy to let them rest in the shed, and let the young tractors with 4wd deal with snow
 
I believe you John!! Been telling fellows for years to keep the valves where they belong in diesel heads, or starting compression WILL drop. I actually went a bit too far on the Ford 6000 tractor drive toy and raised compression too much. That thing will start at 25 degrees with no help at all, manifold heaters are not even hooked up and no block heater..
 
As long as the pistons don't touch the valves, you can't go too far. A 188 properly tuned will start @ 15 with no heat. When I say this, it is assumed the tractor has good batteries. The engine has to spin.
 
Rod: I think the old saying goes something like this: I'd rather explain the price now, than apologize for the job tomorrow. Something like that. In the last 10 years, we've had 3 customers who didn't believe me, or maybe they did, but were swayed by a shop, and when the heads were installed, the engines would not start because of low compression. One shop owner told my customer I was full of $hit, and was only wasting their money. He wasted their money because another shop had to do the heads right, and the 1st guy would not reimburse any money. You can lead a horse to h20 but you can't make them drink.
 
Makes perfect sense Mr. Saeli, but what if you've had the deck & counterbores cleaned up thereby raising the compression ratio? Is it then good practice to recess the valves some to bring it back nearer to stock ratio & valve-to-piston clearance?
I kind of hyjacked another thread on this subject here -
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=case&th=359113
 
John, glad your continuing to get better. Thanks for posting this. Information sharing is what this forum is all about. gobble
 
John-

I always like when you share this story. Our 930 would start pretty good down to 0 - without the sniff of either. Below that it had to be plugged in. Our 830 loader tractor on the other hand was the most cold blooded creature ever to roam this earth - but that engine is so tired, I think pistons switch bores when it's running. I do get upset when people automatically label the 30 series diesels as hard starting

Glad to hear that you are out and about starting tractors in this cold weather. Be sure to tell Chris that Karen and I say hello!

Matt
 

I was a heavy equipment operator in the Canadian Rockies for almost 35 years. -40 was not unusually cold & when you're in the bush, you better hope you've still got some ether left in the can! Those 471 Detroit Diesels were incredible.

Now that I'm in a slightly milder climate (-5 F), I plug my 310E in an hour or two in advance. Spin the starter a few seconds to prime the oil pressure, hit the preheat for 20-30 seconds, starts every time.

And that's a 1961 188D that's probably never had the head off!
 
When a block is decked the upper counterbore must be decked also, otherwise the piston runs the risk of hitting the head. On the powercell diesels, I was referring to, the intake valves need to be flush w/ the surface of the head. It does no good to recess them in a situation where you decked the block, and not the upper counterbore, because the piston runs the risk of hitting the head.
 
When you deck the block the upper counterbores need to be cut to get the sleeve protrusion right. The upper counterbore has nothing to do with the height of the piston. Another way to raise the compression is to install a thicker valve seat on the exhaust valve. I did that on my 930 with the last overhaul. 2nd piston up and it is running. Pulls just as good as my 2090, and the 2090 runs 110 on the dyno.
 
Use your God given discretion and sort it out. Has he solely worked on CASE equipment since 1929? I trust 1370Rod. Scroll down & see what he says.
 
You are absolutely right. See what happens when I try to multi-task? The correct Sleeve Protrusion is a critical step in engine re-building that sometimes gets overlooked. When I do a valve job on a pre-combustion CASE head, the Intakes are flush, and I bring the exhausts up pretty close to the powercell, remembering that when she shoots fuel across, the valve is closed.
 
@ Andy

I'll be the first to admit I'm no mechanic. There's literally centuries of experience floating around in this forum. That's why I'm here.
If I can't float a theory or ask an honest question then what are you doing here?
 

@ John Saeli

My apologies for going off on a tangent, I didn't catch the engine model you were referring to off the bat.
 
My 400 with the 301d I recently installed and rebuilt is like that. Down to freezing it's starts fine. Down to zero if it's plugged in. My 1030 is not as good but it has bad injectors that I'm fixing right now. I had a hard time to get the head guy to set the valves that way, but now that he did it works fine. The first time on the 1030 heads they were set lower and it wouldn't start very well at all.
 
Batteries are also a big factor. All my diesels get two good 12v batteries so they spin over fast. Recently put a 2290 starter in my 1030 and it spins much faster and starts better.
 
Don't mean to start step on anyone's toes but I always felt that the 267 and 401 engines seemed to start better for some reason than 830 and 1030 engines
 
My 830 diesel will start with the intake heater down to about 10 after that I had better plug it in. All in all it starts good. Must have a good battery to turn over at the proper speed. I will remember what you said about the head, valves and seats. Thanks for the info John.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top