1956 Case 311 Timing

Hello, we have a 1956 Case tractor. We have a new carb., new points, wires, distributor. The tractor will run great just sittung there. But it bogs down under a load or by just going uphill with nothing attached, to the point it wants to stall. We were told before to set the timing at 0 degrees. Is this right? Thank you so much for your help

Timing for your engine is 4 BTDC, that is the IGN mark on the flywheel. There are several reasons for bogging under load including fuel restricted to the carb and distributor not advancing timing. Start by setting the timing to proper 4 BTDC with engine fully warmed up and idling at 400-500 rpm and go from there.

Are you static timing or using an induction timing light?

Joe

Thank you Joe! To tell the truth, my dad and his friend were just setting it from the tdc and be listening to it. I told my dad what you said. He said than you so much! So, will we take out the plugs, turn the motor till the pin matches the ign mark, pull the distributor and turn the rotor towards the #1 piston? Then tighten everything down and put a timing light on it and make sure it is hitting on the ign mark?

(quoted from post at 16:11:00 09/08/20)
Thank you Joe! To tell the truth, my dad and his friend were just setting it from the tdc and be listening to it. I told my dad what you said. He said than you so much! So, will we take out the plugs, turn the motor till the pin matches the ign mark, pull the distributor and turn the rotor towards the #1 piston? Then tighten everything down and put a timing light on it and make sure it is hitting on the ign mark?

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Gentlemen, correct me if I am wrong but 4 deg advance seems to be awful slow for running timing, I would expect running timing to be close to or above 20 deg. I can see 4 being the retarded timing at startup but the centrifugal advance should allow much more total advance than that. I would make sure the centrifugal advance is not rusted fast or has broken springs or something otherwise hindering it from working If it is working properly I would use an advance style light and see where the high idle timing is with the advance clear in. Adjust the advance lights degree scale till the light is flashing at TDC and that is your total advance, it cannot be done with an old fashioned light as the flywheel is not marked in degrees so the marks need to be adjusted electronically. On our pulling engines we use a little better fuel but our timing will be closer to 30 deg at high idle...An alternative way to time it would be to use a test light and battery, set the mark at IGN and with the distributor set so the light is on turn it counterclockwise till the light JUST goes out then lock it down, that is the way I used to do engines carried in and carried out by the customer.

Lots of people do static timing and the tractor runs ok for years. But the fact is that an idling engine runs faster & smoother at advanced timing so static timing invariably ends advanced because the engine sounds better at idle.

If you are going to static time, bare in mind there are clearances & slack in the engine that need to be taken up in the direction the engine runs.
Plugs out
Turn the engine flywheel CCW
Do no back up to the timing mark if you just missed it, turn back something like 10-20 degs and approach the IGN mark on the flywheel again.
Distributor cap off, cam rotates CW, rotate head until points just start to open on #1 cyl. If you miss, back off 10-20 degs and try again.

Induction light timing is more accurate than static timing pending luck & experience.
I don't know anymore but in the past auto repair stores like Napa, Autozone, etc use to rent out timing lights. If you are going to go with timing light:
Warm up engine to op temp. Idle engine 400-500 rpm, no higher so the dist does start to advance the dist timing.
Clamp Light induction clip to #1 or #4 plug wire or better yet the high tension coil wire just above the dist.
Induction clip on #1 or #4 cyl (doesn't matter which, end result is the same) will give you one look at the timing every other flywheel revolution.
Induction clip on high tension coil wire will show the timing mark every flywheel revolution as #1 and #4 fire. #2 & #3 will also light up as they fire but they just serve to light up the timing hole as there is no mark on the flywheel as they fire.
Set the dist to match the IGN mark and check it again after clamping it tight.

Joe

mEl I agree that the advanced timing lights are great but this is a 60 plus year old engine with wear and slop regardless if it was recently overhauled unless it was balanced and printed. In my youth I worked on sprint car engines that were made as perfect as money & time could buy so I can understand your perfectionism.

Case specifications for this engine is 4 BTDC dist not advanced, 26 degrees advanced at full engine load rpm 1750. This IAD6003 dist starts to advance at about 560-570 rpm.

I fully agree with checking the dist gov for corrosion and light oiling the pivots as that is more likely then zero timing @ idle. Lets just say that I don't trust any static timing unless I do it myself and for as long as it takes to get the time to put a light on the flywheel.

Joe

Do not disagree on any point, however timing at RPM takes the variables out. If there is wear in the advance mechanism and you adjust at high rpm it would be at the designed advance figure and at idle it would be maybe a couple degrees off where it doesn't have much effect. BTW, I have installed many electronic ignition sets in tractor distributors and the difference in spark timing stability is apparent. That being said, I think as you stated earlier that with engines running less that 2000 rpm it is a lot less important and even the erratic timing jumping a degree or two each way would not be noticeable on a dyno. In my career I used the ear method and set them just so there was a touch of retard at idle and was successful with that method, but with what I am doing now we try to milk out the last HP out we get a touch more sophisticated.