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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Eagle Hitch Drop.

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Author  [Modern View]
L.Fure

06-30-2020 10:23:55




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I'm having trouble with the eagle hitch drifting down as soon as it is raised. Would a fault in the interlock cause this, or do I need to look at the control valve?




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L.Fure

07-04-2020 19:22:45




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Took a closer look at the eagle hitch control valve listed on the online parts catalog. The valves for the 500B, and the valve for the 600B doesn't list a detent ball and spring.

https://partstore.caseih.com/us/RitchiesCobb/parts-search.html?csid=6c221b32386d30ab5eb27fd408bd80d0&sl=EN&currency=#epc::mr64316ar673224bi3184650

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Joe (Wa)

07-04-2020 22:47:33




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 07-04-2020 19:22:45  
OK let's look at this a little closer.

The 500B tractors have a G13983 control valve with the detent spring and ball and G13985 control valve w/o the spring and ball. That's the only difference between the two valves You could that the spring and ball out of the G13983 and put it in the G13985 and it and it would now be a G13983.

600B uses a G14140 control valve. There is no parts break down on the 600B page but there is for the same G14140 control valve on the 400B page. There may be some difference in the G13983 valve and the G14140 valve but they both show a detent ball and spring.

Your link shows the EH control valve and linkage but it is too dark to really see much so I looked at the control valve and linkage for the remotes. This pic is pretty dark too but there is a definitely a plug on the side. Both of 600B control valves are listed as G14140 same as the one above.

Pull the plug on the bottom control Valve and see if there is a spring and ball in there, if not pull the plug on the top control valve and see if there is one there.

I hope this is readable, I am not going to proof read it.

Joe

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Joe (Wa)

07-04-2020 17:49:22




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
I'll try to find the ball & spring description in a manual. I know I read it somewhere but my memory isn't so great on where that was.

Joe



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L.Fure

07-04-2020 15:34:37




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I'll try it after removing the detent ball and spring. But every break down picture I've seen has those parts in them. When I did have the detent ball and spring out to check the spring, I stroked the spool and it seemed to me that the spring at the end of the spool was too strong. But what do I know? I'm the one coming to you for help. Like I said, I'll give it a try with 5he engine running this time.

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L.Fure

07-04-2020 04:42:08




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Good morning Joe,

I saw your post on the classic view last night. This site has had these issues for twenty years. That's about the time I first visited this Case forum. I got away from it when I was doing independent study to watchmaking.
Anyway, as I said I saw your post and had to copy and paste the links you posted. When I got to the sites I couldn't get any more information on where to find the cranks. But I do have an idea on this problem. I found that if I nudge the spool a little I can stop the slow drop of the eagle hitch. What would be the chances of the groove in the spool where the detent ball sits in the neutral position being worn? If that groove is worn just enough the spool may not land exactly in neutral when the levers were cycled from dump to neutral. I have a feeling this tractor saw a lot of work in its time. I'm starting to see signs of this while working on it. Like excessive wear in the hitch hole, and the worn hole where the eagle hitch crank goes through the casting. It's either the hole that's worn or the shaft. Either way it slops around enough that the lever has about six inches of play. Another thing I always wonder is who has been working on this in the past and messed things up? Evidence of this can be seen in the goobered up crank levers. They may have been into the detent and put a smaller detent ball in the hole causing the problem I just described. This was a common thing in the watch repair business. A watchmaker has to look over every part of the watch he's working on to make sure a hack hasn't messed something up in the past. The same thing is true while working on a sixty year old tractors.

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Joe (Wa)

07-04-2020 15:09:12




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 07-04-2020 04:42:08  
I had to download Firefox and am trying to find my way around as I am getting a lot of sentence breaks in my posts so I have to return to the forum and delete the breaks, download the pics again, then send it to review see if it is worth posting. Chris is aware of the problem. It may be from a recent update to Edge. I am going to see if it happens here at Firefox.

You lost me here are you referring to the rock shaft and housing? "the worn hole where the eagle hitch crank goes through the casting. It's either the hole that's worn or the shaft. Either way it slops around enough that the lever has about six inches of play".

There is no neutral detent in the spool for the ball. The reason for removing the spring and ball is so the spring on the front under the cap can center the spool. The ball in detents is to hold the spool in position until the linkage is operated.

The EH is operated by hand or the quadrant lever. If you haven't already done so, take the quadrant rod off the EH lever and see if that makes any difference. If it does we can go through the steps to adjust that rod.

If nothing else we can remove the control valve ball and spring and see if the spool spring up front is strong enough to center the spool. The linkage is pretty heavy but with all the slop you have maybe it can put it in neutral.

Joe

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Joe (Wa)

07-03-2020 19:07:37




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
[quote="L.Fure"](quoted from post at 22:32:05 07/03/20)
I couldn't make a decent video. But I did take some pictures.

I did a quick and found a seller for each lever but YT automatically deleted my response on this Modern View Forum but it posted on the Classic View Forum. While this thread is open, go to the top of this page and click on Classic View in the box will take you to this thread in Classic View.

Joe

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L.Fure

07-03-2020 14:32:05




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
I couldn't make a decent video. But I did take some pictures.









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L.Fure

07-03-2020 12:46:51




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

It all started out with the sloppy linkage. I had replaced the roll pins in the bellcranks to remedy that problem. What I found was a cobbled together bellcrank that operated the remote control valve, which was real sloppy. The bellcrank for the eagle hitch had worn roll pins. After I renewed the pins I found that the shaft had play in it on the bellcrank side. That's when I put out a request for replacement cranks and bellcranks. Jean Claude Marlaeu supplied me with a used set. Not knowing what the cranks were supposed to look like I figured the ones from JC were correct. When I tried to install them I discovered that the cranks wouldn't work on my 600B, but the bellcranks were good replacements. Now here's where it gets a little foggy for me. I can't remember whether I had replaced the bellcranks before or after the trip to town to fill the gas cans, and either put the tractor in the garage to replace the bellcranks and cranks after the trip, or if I had something else in mind when I put the tractor in the garage. I'm thinking that I could make the eagle hitch work after I replaced the roll pins, but didn't like the slop that remained from the cobbled up remotes bellcrank, and crank rod/shaft slop. When I discovered that the cranks from JC wouldn't work I went ahead and switched out the bellcranks with the goober welded cranks. I think that's when I discovered I had a new problem, the sinking eagle hitch. I should add that the cranks from JC were made of aluminum, and the steel shafts were too long. The cranks that are on the tractor are flat stock goober welded onto the steel shafts. The ones from JC didn't have any slop on the bellcrank end, but were too long. I thought about cutting the shaft to the right length then drill a new hole in the shaft for the bellcrank. I decided against that in fear of not drilling the hole straight enough for the roll pin. I would need a v-block and drill press to do it right, neither of which I have. And I knew that I would really make a mess if I used a 3/8" drill to make the hole.
Would it help if I made a short video of the bellcrank action? I'll see if I can do something like that.

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Joe (Wa)

07-03-2020 17:24:48




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 07-03-2020 12:46:51  
This is a real quick search for replacement levers. I listed tractors these levers were used on in case you can do a salvage yard hunt. Did you check with Don L he has a big yard in MN - Don Livingston (507) 433-0073 phone AM best. If you have a machine shop near, they would make work of cutting to length & drilling. Take your beat up ones for a target so there is no doubt about dimensions.

G14090 - CRANK - valve control for Eagle hitch
https://www.link_disallowed/control-rod-crank-g14090.html - lists one $27. http://mainetractorcrossing.com/case-611b-parts/case-611b-parts.htm - G14090 Hydraulic Valve Control Crank $20.00. You might ask if they have the G14091 I may have missed it

Used on these tractors:
(400B-SERIES) - CASE DIESEL TRACTORS (1/58-12/59)
(430) - CASE AG & UTILITY TRACTOR (PRIOR TO S/N 8262800) (1/60-12/64)
(500B-SERIES) - CASE TRACTORS (P.I.N. 6095009 & AFTER) (1/58-12/59)
(600B-SERIES) - CASE TRACTORS (P.I.N. 6095009 & AFTER) (1/58-12/59)
(630) - CASE DIESEL TRACTOR (1/60-12/63)
(630) - CASE GAS TRACTOR (1/60-12/63)
(530) - CASE AG & UTILITY TRACTOR (PRIOR TO S/N 8262800) (1/60-12/64)


G14091 - CRANK - valve control for remotes https://parts.depotparts.com/Parts/Single/StartsWith/Any/G14091/ - lists 3, I think you may have to go through a dealer to get parts here. Maybe John Saeli can get it?

Used on these tractors:
(400B-SERIES) - CASE DIESEL TRACTORS (1/58-12/59)
(400B-SERIES) - CASE DIESEL TRACTORS (1/58-12/59)
(430) - CASE AG & UTILITY TRACTOR (PRIOR TO S/N 8262800) (1/60-12/64)
(500B-SERIES) - CASE TRACTORS (P.I.N. 6095009 & AFTER) (1/58-12/59)
(600B-SERIES) - CASE TRACTORS (P.I.N. 6095009 & AFTER) (1/58-12/59)
(630) - CASE DIESEL TRACTOR (1/60-12/63)
(630) - CASE GAS TRACTOR (1/60-12/63)
(320B) - CASE WHEEL TRACTOR (1/57-12/59)
(420B) - CASE WHEEL TRACTOR (1/57-12/58)
(420BD) - CASE WHEEL TRACTOR (1/57-12/59)

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Joe (Wa)

07-03-2020 10:15:18




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

From what you state here about lowering and moving the lever back to neutral, that indicates the control spool is not centering or it is leaking pump pressure up to the interlock moving the spool to the left unseating the ball check. That could be in the linkage or a leaking spool in the control valve.

The linkage length is adjustable at the yoke on the lever. A shot in the dark, maybe you need to adjust that due to the bell crank replacement.

Joe

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L.Fure

07-03-2020 09:44:07




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
I had changed the hydraulic oil and cleaned the hydraulic filter. I also put a new filter for the case-o-matic in the front housing.



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L.Fure

07-03-2020 08:32:41




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Joe, Mel,
I went out this morning to give it another try. Before I started to remove any parts, I started the tractor to watch what is going on with the spool and bellcrank. Believe it or not it was working better than the day before. I can raise the eagle hitch now and it will stay in place. But when I lower the hitch, then but the lever in the center position to stop, it will still slowly drift down. I'm going to call it good enough for now. At least it will be good enough to run a loader with, I hope. I want to that you for all your help. I learned a lot about the hydraulic control on this tractor.

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L.Fure

07-03-2020 06:01:09




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
This is something I should add. The reason I drove the tractor in the garage is I wanted to change the bellcranks and cranks that I received from a member on this forum. It turned out I could only use the bellcranks. I think that's when the sinking eagle hitch started. The one thing I didn't like about exchanging the bellcranks is that the shaft I used has play in the hole in the casting, but it was there before I exchanged the bellcrank. I don't know if changing the bellcranks has any bearing on the problem, but thought you guy's should be aware of it.

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Joe (Wa)

07-03-2020 09:54:03




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 07-03-2020 06:01:09  
You had the EH drop problem prior to replacing the bell cranks. Your very first post described EH dropping and mEL suggested you check slop in linkage especially re bell cranks.

Joe



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L.Fure

07-03-2020 05:33:23




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Joe,

Here is the paragraph that talks about back pressure in the eagle hitch interlock.
The problem I'm experiencing has to be something simple. It worked fine one day, then a day or so later I drive the tractor in the garage and it no longer works correctly. That part of the whole scenario has me baffled.


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Joe (Wa)

07-03-2020 09:48:47




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 07-03-2020 05:33:23  
Lets clear up this misconception re checking EH back pressure. Checking back pressure on the EH interlock in that manual is true, however, what they are measuring is pump back pressure not the EH circuit back pressure. The instruction is just poorly written. I am not certain of the stated pressures as I haven't done that check.

This is the interlock function when lowering the EH. If you connect a gauge to port BB (plugged)as described in that manual, you will be reading pump back pressure not EH back pressure. The pump back pressure will be changed with the distance to the left that the spool moves to uncover port C to circulate pump pressure. Pump pressure is balanced by the check ball spring, that is why they indicate to add another gasket under the cap that will weaken spring pressure causing the spool to move further to the left pushing the ball check further off its seat and the EH drops faster. The pump pressure also drops lower because more of port C is uncovered. Take a good look at how the interlock functions and you will understand.

Joe

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mEl

07-03-2020 05:30:37




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
joe,__L, When converting the system from SA to DA there is a 1/4 " pipe plug that must be removed from the valve body after the interlock is removed, Has that been checked? Obviously some pressure is keeping the interlock unseated and we have to find out why, Joe, you are good at posting pictures, can you research and find the info on converting from SA to DA. I do not know whether it would be info found in the operators manual or the service manual. It has been years since I have played with this stuff.

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Joe (Wa)

07-03-2020 07:35:38




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to mEl, 07-03-2020 05:30:37  
mEl It is just the opposite, plug in for DA, plug out for SA. look at the SA interlock function that I have been posting when the control valve has been stroked to lower the EH port C needs to be unplugged so the pump can circulate oil to avoid going in relief. Port C is the one that is plugged for DA interlock.

I have twice in this thread discussed moving the EH function to the upper control valve and pulling the DA interlock on that control valve to remove the plug.

I am sure there is info in the service manual to explain the difference between a DA & SA interlock which is simply plug in or plug out respectively. I'll hunt it up and post it after coffee & breakfast.

I am an old geezer, I get up at 0700 every morning. It is now 0736 west coast time regardless of what time YT shows at the top of this post. YT servers are about 20 miles from me. Chris & Kim live about 15 miles from me. I don't know how the post times are frequently so far off. I haven't had coffee yet so I have a valid reason for this time related rant.

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Joe (Wa)

07-03-2020 09:16:10




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to Joe (Wa), 07-03-2020 07:35:38  
mEl this the page from a 300/300B service manual. Probably have to zoom to read it.

This is what I wrote earlier about back press building up in the manifold/filter and backing up into the interlock, dumping the hydraulic lock on the EH piston. Is this possible? That is why I want him to check the return oil filer clean and if that doesn't work to shift the EH function to the upper control valve and take the plug out of port C on that interlock.

Checking back pressure on the EH interlock in that manual posted by L.Fure is true, however, what they are measuring is pump back pressure not the EH circuit back pressure. The instruction is just poorly written.

Joe

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L.Fure

07-02-2020 18:20:59




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Joe, Thanks for sticking to this with me. The slot on the valve spool faces down, so that is correct. The detent ball is also there. That was one of the things I checked earlier. The interlock for the remotes is just above the one we are discussing. The manual I have shows to put a gauge on the plugged outlet on the interlock to check for back pressure. If the back pressure reaches 75lbs. it could cause a slow drop of the eagle hitch. I hope I'm reading that correctly.(?)

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Joe (Wa)

07-02-2020 22:08:49




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 07-02-2020 18:20:59  
Can you scan and post that back pressure instruction, I am not very up on COM tractors. I believe that method is for a remotes where you would tee into the DA interlock connection with a pressure gauge will show pump pressure on one stroke and back pressure on the return stroke. It's not going to be the same back pressure as the SA Eagle hitch would develop dropping by gravity as opposed to remote DA cylinder being pushed on one side by pump pressure and measuring psi on the return side.


This is the function of the interlock when the control valve is stroked to lower the EH. The back plug has pressure on it but it is pump pressure. Otherwise there is no pressure on that back plug unless the interlock spool leaks on raise which again would be pump pressure. Pressure would not show on the back plug in neutral position unless the control valve spool leaked pump pressure up there. I may be missing something but I looked at the 600B hydraulic parts and they appear to be the same in this regard as I am familiar with in the dry clutch X00B tractors.

To check pressure to the EH you would tap in a gauge at the plug on top of the rock shaft cover adjacent to the oil inlet fitting. That would give you back pressure during the EH drop but I am not sure it would be of any use to determine back pressure in the control valve and manifold circulation circuit. That is a good question for mEl.

Hopefully mEl can jump in here and give us some advice on this whole problem.

All the pre 1960 tractors that I have worked the hydraulic on have the lower interlock block on the right side and the upper control valve is simply turned over to put the interlock block on the left side for ease of access and also to have the remotes on the left side. Regardless of whether the control valve is mounted with the interlock block on the right side of the tractor or turned over putting the interlock block on the left side of the tractor it is going to function the same.

I would do as I wrote previously to change the upper interlock from DA to SA (remove C port plug), check that it is mounted correctly, plug the after fitting and connect the existing EH supply/return line to the front fitting or rig up a suitable supply/return to the EH.

From the foregoing info we are reasonably sure the interlock is ok (providing spring is not weak) and that the piston seals are tight so lets see what a different control valve, interlock, and linkage does for the problem.

Joe

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L.Fure

07-02-2020 09:19:24




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Okay, I did as you asked. I propped up the eagle hitch, then plugged the line and kicked the prop out from under the eagle hitch.. While I was waiting to see if the eagle hitch would leak down I took the interlock off again and went through it one more time. When I was done with that the eagle hitch hadn't budged.

I put the interlock back on and tried the eagle hitch again. It still dropped at the same speed it always did after it was raised. When I raised the eagle hitch, then shut off the engine, the eagle hitch will stay up. One other thing I tried was to raise the eagle hitch, then while it was dropping, I would stroke the spool about 3/8" and it would stop dropping. While I did this I didn't hear and laboring from the engine. What could be wrong with the control valve?

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Joe (Wa)

07-02-2020 17:36:29




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 07-02-2020 09:19:24  
When you shut down the engine there is no pump pressure to the safety interlock to break the hydraulic lock on thee hitch piston. That is a safety to keep the hitch from dropping on someone working on/near the hitch.

Maybe the spring in the interlock is weak vibrating off its seat by engine vibration. Grabbing at straws here but swap spring with other end. Engine rpm isn't going to change until load drops rpm below governor droop.

It appears there is some pump pressure getting to the interlock via the control valve. I don't know if high back pressure can do that. With the spool in neutral it just circulates like this pic

Have you checked you return filter element? I thread in a fitting so I can check differential pressure across the element w/o pulling the element out. That's the only place I know to check system back pressure.

A couple other things you can check before you get real serious about getting into the control valve too deep. Are the spool valves end slots facing down not up? Is this spring and ball existing? When control valve is used for any other application then EH the the ball & spring is removed.

Do you have an upper control valve with the interlock on the left side of the tractor? If so I would run a temporary hose to the EH. First take the interlock off, there will probably be a recessed head 1/4" pipe plug in port C, remove it if plug is there to change from DA to SA. Connect EH hose to the front interlock fitting and plug off the back fitting. Make sure the interlock is not installed end for end. The spring and ball is probably already out on that control valve but I would not swap it from the other control valve just for this test.

Joe

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L.Fure

07-01-2020 16:10:30




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Okay, I see where you are going with this. I'll do it tomorrow morning.



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mEl

07-01-2020 15:56:27




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
L, probably the best thing to do is get a # 8 JIC plug and raise the arms and plug off the line at the valve then remove the prop from under the arms and let it sit. A little weight on it wouldn't hurt.



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L.Fure

07-01-2020 15:02:17




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
I just remembered that the day before I started having trouble with the eagle hitch, I had loaded the carrier with a bunch of gas cans and headed three miles to town to fill everything. I had 35-40 gallons in the cans, and the eagle hitch stayed up all the way home. So whatever happened, it happened in a couple of days after the trip to town.



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mEl

07-01-2020 05:52:00




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Joe, check out the 530- 570 DOM tractors on the parts site, I researched that last nite and found it. I was wondering also about that but could not find any indication it was used on 530s. It was even difficult to find the top and piston breakdown I had type rock shaft into the search box then found it.



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Joe (Wa)

07-01-2020 10:18:34




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to mEl, 07-01-2020 05:52:00  
Thanks mEl, I found it where you pointed out. It is listed as used in the later models of these tractors:

Eagle Hitch piston seal leak off oil return to torque tube
A38394 PAN - oil return (tube approx. 13-1/8" long)

(430) - CASE DRAFT-O-MATIC TRACTOR (S/N 8297801 TO 8650135) (1/65-12/69)
(470) - CASE TRACTOR (S/N 8656925 & AFTER) (1/70-12/72)
(530) - CASE DRAFT-O-MATIC TRACTOR (S/N 8297801 TO 8650135) (1/65-12/70)
(570) - CASE TRACTOR (S/N 8656925 & AFTER) (1/70-12/72)
(580) - CASE CONSTRUCTION KING TRACTOR (BSN 8685800) (NORTH AMERICA) (1/66-12/71)
(480CK) - CASE CONSTRUCTION KING WHEEL TRACTOR (1/66-12/71)


That doesn't show up on olgentdc's 600B. I don't believe there is any other way to break the hydraulic lock on the EH piston other than a leaking interlock ball check or piston seal leak. Any comment on that?

Joe

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L.Fure

07-01-2020 05:18:00




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Thanks Joe. You have given me a lot of information to work with. The oil levels were good when I bought the tractor, and I didn't see any cross contamination when I changed the oil in the transmission and torque tube. The eagle hitch will stay up for days without anything on it. I'd think that if it will leak down as fast as it does with a carrier hooked to it, it would drop some while sitting with nothing hooked to it. My 530 has leaking piston seals and will drop while empty after a few days. That will be my next project if I get the eagle hitch fixed on the 600B.
I'm going fishing today. Maybe taking a day away from this project will give me some new insperation.

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L.Fure

06-30-2020 14:44:44




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
I didn't learn a darn thing. The interlock is the correct one, and is installed correctly. I removed it from the tractor, and port C does have the plug removed. While I had it removed I took the cap off and checked the ball, ball seat, and the number of bronze washers that were under the cap. The ball looked okay, and there were two bronze washers under the cap, so I removed one. I seated the ball using a brass drift for good measure. It does the exact thing it has always done.

The control valve spool works like it should. At least from what I see from the outside. The detent holds the spool in the neutral position like it should. I tried fiddling with the lever to see if I could stop the progression of the eagle hitch drop. If anything it made it drop faster. Even if I partially stroked the spool in the raise direction.

BTW, I noticed that on my 600B there is not a shifter to take the pump out of gear. I remember the 400B I used to have had one, but this 600B doesn't.

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Joe (Wa)

06-30-2020 22:34:29




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 14:44:44  
I think the 611B has flooded axles like the other ag tractors does it not. When you're filling the transmission the oil level begins overflowing into the axles somewhere after the oil level appears on the bottom of the dipstick. That increase in area really slows down the rise on the dipstick as you add more oil. What I am say here is it takes quite a bit of oil to show a rise on the dipstick but it seems you have had this problem for some time and the rate of drop surely would have shown up by now.

Some of the later tractors had a catch "pan?" and tube to convey any piston seal leak back to the torque tube. I can't find any evidence of that at the Caseih site on any tractor, it may not be listed with the EH parts. I remember CNT mentioning that but don't remember what year/model that leak recovery system was installed. Might be worth it to page CNT, Loren, or one of those experienced guys and ask about it.

The COM tractors do not have the hyd pump shifter from the factory.

Joe

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L.Fure

06-30-2020 13:19:47




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Thanks Joe (WA). This is exactly the thing I need to know that I couldn't get from an IT manual. BTW, I do hear the engine labor a little while lowering the eagle hitch. I'll let you know what I find out.



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Joe (Wa)

06-30-2020 13:05:54




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
The first thing you need to do is check that the piston seals are not leaking and I am sure you know how to do that.

The next check is the safety interlock since that is what maintains the hydraulic lock on the piston. and it doesn't matter at this point whether the control valve is leaking or not because the interlock has to leak through first in order for the system to leak oil down to the control valve.

This is how SA interlocks work:

Raise position: Control valve stroked to apply pump pressure to port A which pushes ball check off it seat admitting pressure to EH piston. The number of copper gaskets under the cap on the end increases or decreases spring pressure on the check ball, that may be a factor in seating the ball check after pump pressure is ceased.


Lower position: The control valve is stroked to apply pump pressure to port B stroking the spool to the left unseating the ball check, breaking the piston hydraulic lock, and providing a path back through port A for the oil to return the sump via the control valve and return filter. The pump pressure not required to balance the ball check spring tension is dumped through port C. The design here is to provide some oil in circulation for the pump and also to avoid have the pump running in relief. So again ball check spring tension is germane.


Neutral position: If the control valve spool is definitely in neutral, there is no pump pressure to the interlock. The ball check on the left is maintaining a hydraulic lock on the piston.


SA interlocks sometimes get swapped with a DA interlock in which the pipe plug in port C has not been removed. An interlock may be bolted up end for end which will misalign and block port C and restrict the other ports about 30% but will still operate the EH. The problem here will be that port C will be blocked and the pump will apply full relief pressure on the spool compressing and possibly weakening the ball check spring, as well as, running the pump at relief valve pressure while lowering the hitch. So if you are lowering your hitch and the engine grunts your linkage may be stroking the control valve or you might want to check the interlock bolting/fitting clearance.


So that's just about it providing the interlock is SA, hasn't been installed end for end and there is no pump pressure to the interlock. If the piston seals are not leaking, there are no other leaks between the interlock and the piston then the fault is in the ball check/spring. Might be corrosion, debris in the oil, weak spring that is preventing the ball check from being oil tight, spool is sticking, etc..

Joe

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L.Fure

06-30-2020 12:27:09




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 Re: Eagle Hitch Drop. in reply to L.Fure, 06-30-2020 10:23:55  
Another thing I should add. I'm not losing hydraulic oil into the transmission.



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