830 CK Compression

muleman51 · Mar 29, 2020

The compression on my 830 is 240, 248,230,245, is that enough for it to start OK. It starts very hard, unless it is above 60*. Trying figure out where to start, rings, valves, injector pump Just want to get it to run so I can use it. Thanks for the help. Jim

Dieseltech · Mar 30, 2020

Not high enough, for good starting you need 350-400 PSI. Diesels will run when warmed up at 300 PSI but don't start well that low..

John Saeli · Mar 30, 2020

Easiest thing you can do is a valve adjustment. If that doesn't fix it, the old trick is to put oil in the cylinders and see if that raises compression to where it needs to be. If the oil does the trick, that says the rings are wore bad. If the oil doesn't do it, the next thing is to pull the heads. Look at valve recession. Intake valves needs to be flush to no more than .010" recessed from the head surface. Aprox. 1" recession on the exh. valve. Even after the heads are removed, the sleeves should be measured to determine whether or not they need to be replaced. Ring end gap can then be measured. 2 - group 30 or 31 batteries hooked in parallel is a must. When everything is right, your 830 should start down to 40 degrees F without the use of the manifold heater.

muleman51 · Mar 30, 2020

Thank you gentlemen. I was afraid the the money pit had just begun now that I am out of work for a while it appears.We are declared essential but the hospital shut down all construction for now.

RonSa · Mar 30, 2020

I think the compression numbers are reasonably uniform. This suggest all the valves have tappet clearance and their sealing condition is similar and their recesses are similar.

Did the problem suddenly start to appear? Does the engine run good after it starts?

Is there excessive crankcase blow-by when the engine is idling? This would indicate the rings are leaking more than normal. leaking rings contribute to low start-up compression.

Is the starter "dragging"? A slow cranking speed can contribute to low start-up compression ever if the rings are good.

If it starts okay above 60 degrees and runs good enough after started, consider installing an engine heater. I think external heaters are easier to plumb than doing a freeze plug instillation. Just my preference.

muleman51 · Mar 30, 2020

The tractor has started poorly as long as I have had it, 5 or 6 years. It really doesn't get used that much. It runs just fine once started. It has blowby but I don,t know how much is excessive. If I keep the batteries charged up the starter turns it over well. It does have a tank heater on which I use when it is cold. I really never use it when it is cold, just in the fall when I use it on an auger during harvest. It starts poorly most of the time. I know the old ones do't start like the newer ones. I have to use the manifold heater or ether most all the time. I just hate putting more into it than it will be worth when done, guess that's why I bought it, nostalgia, comes with a price.

RonSa · Mar 31, 2020

I am old, retired, and the virus has me house bound so I have time to peck on the keyboard and be a bother. LOL

Years ago, I had a 930 CK which we know is the 6 cylinder version of the 830 CK. I always thought its pre-combustion chamber system started poorly compared to other diesel engines with direct injection. I sense you are around other farm diesels so what engines are you comparing your 830 poor starting to?

As a general rule diesel engines need the strongest batteries that will fit into the battery box. Are you using strong batteries in the 830? Does using a jumper battery help any?

I guess the bottom line is if you can always get the 830 started without a lot of hassle and if it runs fine, just live with the "nature of the beast". LOL

muleman51 · Mar 31, 2020

I'm just about 69 Not retired but our projects are now on hold. This is what scares me about retirement, no structure and too much time and no new income to pay for all the projects I have been saving. I'm comparing the 830 to my 1066 which you hardly touch the starter and it is running, same with my 4-210 with a cat, just starts instantly. The 830 starts a lot slower than I remember the 900, that said it was 50 years ago, that alone scares me. The 900 was a newer tractor comparatively than anything I have now.
This to shall pass, work one more year and retire.

Don Rudolph · Mar 31, 2020

Overheard at a tractor show. "We had a 1030. If you walked passed it with a Sno-Cone it wouldn't start." Those 30 series are kind of like 6 volt tractors-everything needs to be in really good shape to start decent. Our 1030, which we dearly love, has had a lot of work done to it and is still a hard starter, compared to the 70 series machines. For some reason, the old 400, 500 and 600 start much easier. Don

rfdmn · Apr 1, 2020

Don, I think you could add the 800's to that list. It might be my immigration but the 730 and 930 seemed to start easier than the 830 and 1030. Could this be tied to the larger bore for some reason ?

rfdmn · Apr 1, 2020

Don, I think you could add the 800's to that list. It might be my immigration but the 730 and 930 seemed to start easier than the 830 and 1030. Could this be tied to the larger bore for some reason ?

muleman51 · Apr 1, 2020

Update. Put oil in cylinders pressure went up to 400. So a ring job it is along with bearings, gaskets and ??? the list goes on.

RonSa · Apr 1, 2020

I remember when working at Cat the small 3208 V8 would fire off immediately down around freezing. I was impressed. Not sure what Cat engine you have but I guess it also starts quickly.

As we know, your 1066 IH engine is a much improved version of the earlier 560 IH diesel. I had a JD 4010 diesel that started very poorly. With direct injection, every brand is doing much better getting their diesels to start quickly.

How many seconds does it take you 830 to smooth out and idle smoothly after starting cold? Blow-by can affect this. Also, how much do you open the throttle for starting? My 4010 needed about 3/4 throttle to crank and about 1/3 throttle to keep it running when cold.

My 1170 only needs about 1/4 throttle to crank and 1/8 throttle to keep running. I don't remember what the 930 needed but pre-combustion chambers take a little longer.

BLOW-BY----If the blow-by at idle is like smoke lazily coming out a chimney that is very good. If it is shooting out with significant velocity that is a sign the rings are bad.

John Saeli · Apr 1, 2020

Don-Don-Don-Haven't I given you the lecture before. If everything is right, your 1030 should start at 40F without the manifold heater. Bottom line is, if she starts hard, something is wrong. Someone, at one time, might have ground the valves and seats, guaranteeing a hard stating Diesel. I have seen an epidemic of poor valve jobs.
We had a customer last year, who took their heads to a "very professional shop", who ground the valves and seats in so bad, their 830 would not start afterward.

John Saeli · Apr 1, 2020

NO!! Our 800 will start @ 35 degrees without the heater. And the Case-O-Matic doesn't drag the gears either.

rfdmn · Apr 1, 2020

John I was adding the 800 to the list of easier starters sorry for not stating that clearly. Our 800 starts fine. We had a 930 comfort king that that seemed to start easier than either of the 830 I have now. One of which was overhauled recently and starts much better than the other but both need to be preheated. But I wouldn't' consider either of them hard starting.

Don Rudolph · Apr 1, 2020

John, John, John,

I followed your advice to the T, new rings, new valves, springs, injectors, rebuilt pump, rebuilt starter, new cables, new 1000CCA batteries. It's OK, but not great. Would I not listen to you? Don

830 CK Compression

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