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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge

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chueseman

09-09-2019 18:59:16




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I have 1960 Case 830 gas tractor with Case-O-Matic. I am working on the almost impossible task of getting all the gauges working perfectly. I have the following 2 questions:

1. I have a bad fuel gauge (A21496) and a spare where if I check on continuity, they both show open. I assume this means that they are no good. Is there anybody in the country that can repair them?

2. I have the engine oil pressure gauge (A21494) and a spare, but they are connected to nothing. I am assuming I can find the correct tubing size (A20131) and the caps and fittings for both ends. Where on the engine should I find the oil pressure sending unit?

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Joe (Wa)

09-11-2019 13:28:22




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to chueseman, 09-09-2019 18:59:16  
Are your gauges AutoLite or Stewart Warner?

Joe



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Joe (Wa)

09-11-2019 13:51:30




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to Joe (Wa), 09-11-2019 13:28:22  
Never mind I found A21496 to be Auto-Lite.

Joe



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chueseman

09-15-2019 18:52:31




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to Joe (Wa), 09-11-2019 13:51:30  
Yes, it is Autolite. As time permits, I am working on many aspects of the instruments in the panel. On Amazon, I have found new light sockets (A21501) for the 3 dash lights. Once received, I will figure out how to tie them together and to the light switch. Case's poor method of grounding them will also be addressed. Getting back to the fuel gauge, sometime soon I will again be looking at the problem of the open in the windings. Perhaps the problem is not with the windings themselves, but rather with the end connections of the wire to the 2 posts. Thank you for your interest and I will keep you informed. I have found one company that will rewind it, if necessary. I am having more fun than the law allows.

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Adirondack case guy

09-10-2019 15:03:42




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to chueseman, 09-09-2019 18:59:16  
You can get that entire gauge cluster rebuilt to like new condition. I don't have the fellows name that does it, but there are guys here that do.--------Loren



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chueseman

09-10-2019 17:19:21




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to Adirondack case guy, 09-10-2019 15:03:42  
Yes, All States Ag Parts sells a rebuilt Instrument Cluster for $800. I am not paying that outrageous price. I do have a name to call in New Jersey. If I call him and he will actually rebuild the gas gauge, I will share that with the forums members. Getting back to All States Ag Parts, someone is rebuilding the gauges for them. They probably won't let me know who that is. Please keep your ears open.

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RJKeith

09-10-2019 14:05:06




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to chueseman, 09-09-2019 18:59:16  
You are correct, if they read open it is almost certain they are no good. To rewire them you would need exact factory specs including number of turns, wire gauge, direction of turns, etc. Maybe you will get it to work right.


Or you could buy an off the shelf gauge and sending unit, and try to fit the guts of the new gauge into the old housing.


Or you could get you a good, clean stick.

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chueseman

09-10-2019 17:41:54




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to RJKeith, 09-10-2019 14:05:06  
I appreciate your reply, but this is a restoration. Modifications are not allowed at this time. The only OEM parts on my tractor involve steering tubes at the very front end. The parts were indeed an EXACT duplicate of the parts Case/IH no longer offers. I will keep trying to come up with a working A21496.



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LPakiz

09-10-2019 06:53:53




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to chueseman, 09-09-2019 18:59:16  
If you can make the dash gauge go from empty to full by hot wiring it, that will prove the gauge is OK. Unhook the existing wires first, so you're not risking damage to other components. (Polarity may matter here, so try it both ways)

If the dash gauge proves OK, reconnect the gauge wires and do the same with the wires by the tank sender unit. If the gauge still responds correctly, test the tank sender.

In my years of experience with Class 8 trucks, 90% of the time the dash gauge and wires are OK and the problem is ground connections at the tank sender, the sender itself, or even that the tank itself is not grounded and is thus unable to complete a circuit. Check that next. A vise grip on the tank seam flange and another on clamped to part of the engine, connected by a jumper wire, will prove that out.

To test the tank sender, remove the wires from the sender and hook your ohmmeter to each of the sender connection points. Move the float up and down. The ohmmeter should respond smoothly and proportionately. An old style analog (needle) ohmmeter is best here.

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chueseman

09-10-2019 08:22:03




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to LPakiz, 09-10-2019 06:53:53  
Thanks for your words of wisdom. Once I get past the 'open" problem with the gauge itself, I will heed your words for further testing. I also want to get the cigarette lighter and dash lights working. I am not happy with how Case provides grounding for them. It goes from the dash panel to the gas tank to the tractor. That means there are several spots where things can go awry, in terms of a good ground.

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DKase

09-09-2019 20:52:52




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to chueseman, 09-09-2019 18:59:16  
If you connect 12 volts to one terminal on the fuel gauge and ground the other the gauge should go to full. If not it is bad. The oil pressure gauge hooks up to the oil gallery lower right side of engine.



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chueseman

09-10-2019 08:04:27




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to DKase, 09-09-2019 20:52:52  
Most of my response to you is informational and not intended to offend in any way. There are 2 separate ways to test an electrical gauge. You stated using 12 volts to test. An easier and superior way is through use on a cheap multimeter (aka a volt/ohm/amp meter). I mentioned “ if I check on continuity, they both show open.” This means I took a multimeter, setting it to any of the ohm ranges, and connected it to both sides of each gauge. It measured infinite resistance, meaning that the coiled wire inside the gauge has a break in it. I used an LCD meter where 1 means infinite resistance (break in the circuit) and 0 (or very close to 0) means no break in the circuit. As a courtesy to you, I used a 12 volt source and found no voltage. Again, this is because the coiled wire inside the gauge has a break in it.
I mentioned above using an ohmmeter is superior for gauge testing. Let me give you some examples. I could have tested between the ACC post and the incoming post on the fuel gauge. If I got infinite resistance, it would mean the wire is bad. If I removed the fuel gauge sender from the gas tank and put my leads on the terminal post on the sender and any ground spot on the sender, as you manually move the float up and down, you shown observe a change in resistance (ohms). Temp gauges work exactly the same way.
Bear in mind if you are talking about either the temp gauge or the fuel gauge, 12 volts enter the gauge, which is essentially a resistance (ohm) meter and continues on the to sending unit. As the fuel float moves up or down, or the water temp moves up or down, it changes the total resistance of that system and the needle on the gauge moves accordingly. You should now understand that a ‘sending unit’ is actually a variable resistor. I does not send anything.
I will assume from your response that you don’t know where to send a water or fuel gauge to have the coil rewound. Finally, where is the oil pressure sending unit supposed to be? I have no idea what you mean by the ‘oil gallery’. Is it front of the distributor or behind it? Please be much more specific.

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DKase

09-10-2019 18:47:22




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to chueseman, 09-10-2019 08:04:27  
I know all that. I did not just fall off the turnip truck. You can rewind the gauges yourself. Just need to find the same gauge wire, and wrap the same number of wraps. I have done that on gauges that can not be replaced, and the coils of accelerated governors on portable welder engines. There are guys around that have the individual gauges for the gauge clusters.



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chueseman

09-11-2019 10:12:31




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to DKase, 09-10-2019 18:47:22  
Okay.... I did say I did not mean to offend. I have 2 thoughts on your reply. As a person who knows nothing about windings and wire gauges, I have no interest in attempting to replace the windings myself. You stated “There are guys around that have the individual gauges for the gauge clusters.”. I don’t know how to interpret that statement. Who are you referring to? Do you know specific people? Can I do a Google search for people or companies that could do it? What words would be in the Google search? Do you understand my point of confusion?

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chueseman

09-10-2019 17:07:34




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 Re: Case 830 (early model) Fuel Gauge in reply to chueseman, 09-10-2019 08:04:27  
Forget about the oil pressure tubing. It was on the tractor. My error.



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