Thoughts on a Case 800B with COM trans.

flatpkr

Member
As a kid on the farm in Northern Michigan we had a Case 800B. We always had problems grinding gears, you sometimes had to hold the clutch in awhile before shifting. Another thing way backing up to hook onto an implement or wagon, you couldn?t release the clutch gently, it was either engaged or not engaged, couldn?t let it out easily. Found out that if you applied the brake at the same time it would ease back then.

This was a 1959 model and I?m not sure if my Dad complained to the dealer or not about it, probably not. Eventually I remember that one gear, I think it was 5th or 6th that it would pop out of occasionally. Also the case-o-matic became sluggish with time.
Would have been nice if there were computers and forums back then, 1960?s , to discuss issues like there is today. Would have solved some of the tractor problems we had back then.
Now, I?m retired and own a nice 1961 430 diesel with a triple range, I like much better than the 800b with COM. But I?ve long been away fro: the farm but still have fond memories.

Just thought I?d share those thoughts this morning.
Jim
 
One thing we ALWAYS told a customer when buying a new COM unit from us was when backing up use HIGH range,, then you just have to idle up to move SMOOTH and Silk to hook up, the jumping out of gear can be caused by a few things
 
When they are right, or the correct oil is used, they do not grind. As for backing up, I use low range, engine idling & feather w/ the brakes. On your car or pick up w/ auto tanny, how do you feather it back? With the brakes, of course.
For those not familiar with the CASE-O-MATIC, stay away. For me?? I love them.
 
I was 10 years old we purchased a new 600. I can still remember him instructing it to be operated in the same way john and case nutty explained along with engaging the converter clutch at an idle. I think that my brother and I were the only ones remembered it.
 
I do remember when my Dad bought the 800b, probably 1960 or 61 and it was used. I even remember what he paid for it at the time, $3000.
I don?t recall the dealer saying much about operation. I did ride on the fender with the dealer driving, he told me to hang on tight as he pulled the direct drive when in 8th gear. We went to my uncles place and put it on the corn chopper.
As far as com fluid goes, the tractor was received from the dealer and I?m sure it had the proper fluid installed. If I remember correctly but I could be wrong, it was type A ATF.
The tractor would grind gears, unless you held the clutch in for awhile, from the day it arrived until it was sold in the farm auction, which was about 20 years. I?m not complaining as otherwise the tractor was fine. It takes some getting used to compared to a conventional clutch.
Jim
 
Sounds to me the downfall of the COM was some people not figuring out how to run it. Was it the company?s fault for not explaining it better? Did all of the Case dealers get on board with the COM and make sure it was understood? Those are just honest questions. We kind go through the same thing with our Steiger that has an Allison Auto. We know how to run it but occasionally it gets loaned to a neighbor. I tell them you run it just like the transmission in your car or pickup. Despite that first thing they do is make sure they engine is running 300 rpms off of idle, then throw it into gear and wonder why it killed itself. You don?t step on the gas pedal while putting your pickup into gear.
 
Grew up on one bought new in 59, replaced a D C, pulled 4-14s, hay baler, mounted picker, 4 row mounted cultivator and anything else we had, they are awesome if you know how to run one, still own 2, my favorite tractor
 
I agree John I use low also,, but for someone not understanding how they worked we found by having them use high it helped them understand how the trans came be used to its full potential, we did how ever always use 3rd gear on the 580's when backing up to hook the backhoe back on,, even at a idle they will jump a bit in 1st when you only need a 1/4" of movement,, the 800 and pre Draft-O-Matic tractors you always let out the clutch at a idle to start off, then throttle up to move,, I also always like to back off the throttle just as I shift to direct drive and it also transitions to direct Smooth. The DOM units all have the "F" style clutch spool that does allow you to let out the clutch at high rpms if needed say like running something with the pto and you need to stop to let it clear out. but me I still idle them down before letting out the clutch 99% of the time,
 

Very good questions. After interviewing many former Case dealers I would say most did get on board with the Case-o-matic transmission and tried to teach their customers the "correct" way to use it. Most dealers, but certainly not all. Maybe it was just too different from what many old timer farmers were used to. My Dad hated our 830 COM, I loved it. A few other thoughts on COM: Some farmers would put in any oil they had on hand, just being cheap-or stubborn. Several old time Case mechanics mentioned finding strange looking oil in COM units in for repair. Also, it was hard to get rid of a COM at trade in time. The competition had really got people scared of them and even Case dealers didn't want them on the lot. We found that out when we traded for a 930. Nobody wanted the 830 COM. Also, Case-o-matic really was passed by in a few years by powershift transmissions brought out by the competition. Even if it would have been successful in the farming marketplace it would have been short lived. Construction is a different story.
 
Tom: Yes!! When shifting from Converter into Direct, I always back off the throttle. Just like using a 2 speed rear axle. Smooth as silk.
 
Don, we had several 700-800s out, and yes we had a few failures, but according to my Dad each customer was shown how to run the COM, but as we all know, many of these transmission's were abused also.
I do know my Dad told me they did 52 demonstrations with a "801B" and all demos were a success.

But Don as you mentioned many dealers didn't get on board, and he also mentioned that, and it did hurt the sales.
 
I've had my 611B, a COM unit, for a couple years now, and I'm just now getting used to the clutch operation. Mind you, I still drive a car with a manual transmission. And my brain is not as agile as it once was. But I still have to think about it to avoid hitting the foot throttle as I let the clutch out even though I know very well the clutch pedal linkage is just going to pop that spool valve through the detents no matter how much I "feather" the pedal. It doesn't help that my brakes are glazed and won't hold the tractor at idle unless it's in road gear (4 high that is). Just been too lazy to tear them apart and fix that.
 
My 58 com 800 is somewhat jumpy, but the 59 800 com has a inching pedal like the newer power shift tractors. Can feather it backing up to equipment better than the 58 800.
 
Do you guys think the COM cost Case some market share?. Could you still get a standard transmission in place of the COM?
 
Case management knew they were behind in tractor development and thought they needed a multi-speed, non clutch shifting option to compete with Torque amplifier, over/under hydraul shift, ampli-torq, multi-power, and others that were coming out (Select-o-speed too). You could definitely buy standard transmissions in the late 50's (A 700 and 800 are identical, except all 800's are COM)but Case drove COM marketing and sales very aggressively. Case dealers gave company sponsored pull-off demonstrations everywhere where they would pull back to back with the competition and the 800 would almost always win. This sold a lot of 800's, but not many 700's. Because it was different in operation and maintenance COM was an easy target for the competition to pick apart. It soon became a disadvantage to Case sales instead of an advantage. Even many Case dealers soured on it after a few years. Most Case dealers didn't want them in trade and so you might as well trade on any color machine that looked good to you. That certainly didn't contribute to brand loyalty. I'm not saying it was poor technology, only that the general farming public did not embrace it.

In talking to Cecil, an old, now deceased Case dealer, he perhaps said it best when he stated, "Case-o-matic was exactly backwards, it should have always defaulted to direct drive instead of COM drive." I asked him why and he said that way would have been much closer to what people were accustomed to when driving tractors. He had a good point.

Another interesting tidbit is that Case engineers were working on a powershift transmission in the 50's and their efforts were redirected toward COM as it could be introduced quicker and cheaper as the technology was already fairly well established.

So, the bottom line is it cost Case millions of dollars to introduce a technology to the marketplace that ultimately proved not to be accepted by the ag industry. However, torque converter drive was wholeheartedly accepted in construction and proved to be very successful in that marketplace. But then again you never had to hook up a wagon to a dozer or a backhoe. Sorry for the longwinded answer. Don
 
Yes, Dual Range also, here is my 1963 "730"
cvphoto781.jpg
 
Don, like you said a lot of it was the dealers not giving it its credit,, we sold more 830 com than 830 dual ranges by far,, if we did get one in on trade which I remember doing twice they was not on the lot long at all,, here COM was King,, still is for me, but we did for sure offer both transmissions as they was some who would not even try one ,, all good,, if not for people wanting more speeds (powershift) I am 100% sure Case would have continued making them in AG units,, other than 1170/1175 70 series we never sold a 8 speed 70 series this to me tells the tale,, folks wanted a shift-on-the-go transmission,, but back in 1956 when Case sent out the questionnaire on what Farmers wanted in their new tractor fluid drive was at the top of the list as well as a shift on the go feature, COM filled the need very well, that was very evident with the shear #'s the 800B sold in compared to the 700 dual range, here a 830 com with 5-14" semi-mount plow was a very impressive machine to run and see in action,, I can still remember the very first one Dad ordered in and we took on a demo, he said if he had known what performance machine they were he would have bought two of them instead of the one 1030,, at our elevation 1030's ran fine but were starving for more air due to the too small air cleaner and did not perform to our expectations even though we sold Lots of them, we added the M&W turbo to a few but did not push the kit as too many wanted to lug them and had issues
cnt
 
No sales lost sales added with it,, I have seen them with 30,000 hrs on them and never a problem or repair to the COM show me another transmission type that can say that even a dry clutch needs a clutch at some point long before those hours, the had so many orders for the 800B's they were backlogged for quite some time building them,
 
I like long winded replies. Thanks guys. The only Case tractors from that era around here was the wheatland 6 speed 930s. Maybe somewhat lacking compared to the competition but the one advantage they had was they were simple and easy to overhaul for the average dumb farmer mechanic like me.
 
(reply to post at 16:01:46 10/24/18)
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Caseamtic was great when plowing and hitting a hard pan just drop her out of direct drive and power on through, very nice when turning on headland with mounted cultivator, very comfortable ride
mvphoto25822.jpg
 
Probably not, because the company offered a standard transmission version of each tractor that was offered with a COM transmission. The 700 was the standard version of the 800 COM. 730 and 830 were offered in Dual Range and COM versions. I'm not sure about the 430, 530 & 630 size tractors.
 

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