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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc

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Henrik Jansson

02-27-2014 02:27:39




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This message is a reply to an archived post by Henrik Jansson on April 30, 2012 at 05:11:47.
The original subject was "Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc".

I checked the pressure on C1, C2, C3 and C4. C4 was very low, the others were good.
I splitted the tractor, and find out that the C4 was totally worn out. It was only metal plates left, and they had started to tear down the surface on the power shift carrier assembly. Probably because the C4 was not in the center, so the C4 piston had failed to engage in the lower part, and just engaged in the top, becaues it was stopped in the bottom by two of tbe nine bolt holes in the carrier assembly.
So I bought a complete power shift from a scrapped tractor.
I will use the carrier assembly from the one I bought, and the shaft in it, and all other parts except the C4 from the one I had, because it looks a litte bit better.
I have the one with splines on the the piston carrier. So my question is do I have to use loctitet on the surface on the pistoncarrier? According to a manual for case 2090-2594 I Should use loctite on the surfaces, but, the on I have has splines, and when I took it apart there was no loctite on the surfaces.
The one I bought had no splines, but it had loctite.
So, Should I use loctite on the surface? I will use it on the bolts, but the surface?

And how should I do to tihten the big 70 mm nut on the countershaft? I will use the old bearing and bearing cup, but the carrier assembly is not the same, so can therefor it would may not be the same anyway if I set he the nuts in the same position as they were with the old carrier assembly?
Is this very important?

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Henrik Jansson

03-16-2014 10:50:15




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 Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc in reply to Henrik Jansson, 02-27-2014 02:27:39  
third party image

third party image

I have spent a few hours now to assembling it exactly as it sat before, ( and you do it , you should not think about anything else accordning to the Repair Manual ) . But then I will of course replace a part that makes the distance between the bearings can potentially affected.

The first picture here shows how the nut will sit. Before I pulled as far as I pulled short pieces at a time and felt thoroughly after if I could feel any looseness , by prying the shaft against me , and push back . I also tried to poke on the rolls in the bearings to know when they started to impose themselves .

After swerving back and forth several times and also mounted loose layer and sat there again , I concluded each time that when I had pulled nut as far as the second picture, I could not feel any looseness when I pushed the shaft forward. The shaft is 49 mm in diameter, the track can be seen in the shaft is 8 mm wide . I filed a mark straight over the nut , you look in the lower right corner to the mark on the first image is aligned with the edge of the groove in the shaft. This is where the nut should be in this case , as it sat in place.

After many repeated tests , I concluded that the gap could be felt when mark sat at the top corner on the track, then when the nut was tightened 8 mm less ( or 1/19 laps less and with a pitch of about 1.3 mm / rev , therefore 0,07 mm less. )

I also found repeatedly that the gap disappears when it is taken 6.5-7 mm tightening the nut. ( What you see on the second picture)

So then , I will mount the new power shift carrier. Besides , all parts are the same .

Then , I look up this situation where the gap disappears , and then drag 6.5mm longer .

It ought to work?

Since that I have been up to the gap ends at precisely this point several times, with a margin of error of 0.5 mm ( of 153 mm circumference) so should surely this method good enough ?

If I do then the same procedure at the new reassembly and manage to find the point where the gap disappears repeatedly then it should well be right ?

I have pried shaft forward and even knocked it a bit.

But one thing I'm thinking a little on .. because it's an old tractor from 1976 that has gone over 5000 hours , one can expect that the roller bearing is a bit worn so that it would possibly tighten a little more than it was when you took it apart ?

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Henrik Jansson

03-15-2014 15:50:53




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 Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc in reply to D beatty, 02-27-2014 02:27:39  
About the preload for bearing, how big margin do I have?

Is it less than 0,1 mm?
How accurate does it has to be?

I will reassemble the old powershift carrier first, and set the nut exactly as it was before, I will do this several times, and I will also set the nut harder and looser untill I can feel any different.
I will try to find the point where I start to feel looseness in the bearing when I set the nut looser. Then I know how far from this point the correct preload would be.

Then, I will reassemble the new powershift carrier but with the old bearings, and try to get the same feeling.

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1370rod

02-27-2014 09:15:32




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 Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc in reply to Henrik Jansson, 02-27-2014 02:27:39  
Yes use locktite on the hub surface and on NEW bolts. Surfaces need to be prepped properly as the bolts. The pinion shaft should have a little preload on the brgs. Because the differential is in the tractor the brg preload can not be set as instructed in the manual. However if you are familiar with setting preloads on other applications you can tell when you have those brgs preloaded a little. You do not what end play and rapping on the shaft while tightening the nut will help seat the brgs. Rod.

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Henrik Jansson

02-27-2014 11:30:07




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 Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc in reply to 1370rod, 02-27-2014 09:15:32  
Ok, thank you. Why should I use new bolts? Should I have loctite on the entire surface? Including the surface there the four small O rings will be?
Today I got the shop manual C-32 , 80 pages. And in that it does not says anything about loctite on the surface, but in the manual for Case 2090-2594 it says so. Is that not strange?
Is it not possible to follow the instructions in the manual if I lift up the rear wheel to spin on the shaft? I have not done anything like this before.
When I turned the big nut on the shaft, I could do it with my fingers. Will it be wrong if I put the nuts as they sat before?

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1370rod

02-27-2014 19:05:05




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 Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc in reply to Henrik Jansson, 02-27-2014 11:30:07  
Just a few drops of locktite on the mating surfaces is all that is needed. Always replace the bolts if they are 3/8's, they are noted for breaking, 1/2 seem to be OK to reuse. If using a different carrier the brg setting could be a little different. If not familiar with preloading brgs perhaps talking someone to come over that has experience look and help you. By jacking up a wheel so everything is turning would give a false reading because you are turning much more than the pinion shaft. Rod.

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Henrik Jansson

02-28-2014 02:18:28




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 Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc in reply to 1370rod, 02-27-2014 19:05:05  
Ok.
My bolts are 7/16. If I am not wrong 3/8 was original, and it was early redone on this tractor.
The manual also say I should lubricate the four small O rings, should I do so? It will be both lubricate and loctite on the same surface.

Is there anything to think about when I install new sealings and wire on the pistons? The manual says that I should check that the wire ends do not overlap. Does this mean that the wire can be to long, and I have to cut it of a bit?
Would it might be better to use the old wires?

My Case 1370 is from 1976 and the transmission serialnumber is 10031330.

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1370rod

02-28-2014 09:17:51




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 Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc in reply to Henrik Jansson, 02-28-2014 02:18:28  
I have heard of 7/16 bolts being retrofitted in place of the original 3/8 but have never seen a tractor with them installed, so that is good for you. Yes apply a little grease to those orings. I do not want to complicate your job, but There are new style piston seals which require changing the piston also. The pistons don't really wear out so I just get used ones from the local salvage yard and simply install new seals on them. The old style ones with the wires are OK, the new style provide more of a positive leak free seal. In the past 30 years anytime I had a power shift apart if it had the old style seals I always upgrade to the new style because it was easy to do and relatively inexpensive. R od.

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Henrik Jansson

02-28-2014 15:37:07




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 Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc in reply to 1370rod, 02-28-2014 09:17:51  
As I heard they did this on all Case 1370 here in Sweden. And at the same time they also installed lubrication of the pinjong shaft.
Yes I have heard of this new sort of piston and sealing.
But now I got new sealings with wire, and my old ones were not that bad, and it has 5000 hours. I use it about 100 hours every year.
But I have another case 1370, and it has over 7000 hours. Maybe if I have to repair that one that I would like to try to get these new piston. I dont think itś easy to get in Sweden. Do you know if it iss possible to old ones from USA and new sealings?

Is there anything special to think about when I install the new sealings with wire?
Can the wire be to long so I have to shorten it?

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1370rod

02-28-2014 17:31:07




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 Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc in reply to Henrik Jansson, 02-28-2014 15:37:07  
I have never seen any of the wires being to long, but I suppose anything is possible. To install the lip type seals you have, put them on the piston first. Then slide the wire expander in the groove of the seal and carefully feed it in until the wire is completely engaged. If for some reason a wire would be to long it will not all fit into the seal. Just compare wire lengths of old and new ones before installing and you will have nothing to worry about. After wires are installed take a soft rod wooden dowel, a pencil will do, put a little oil on the seal, then with light pressure push pencil against seal and run it around the piston a couple times. The factory service manuals should so doing that on the early style seals. That helps tip the sharp edge down a little so the pistons can be installed with out the threat of rolling back a seal lip. Rod.

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Henrik Jansson

03-07-2014 16:36:37




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 Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc in reply to 1370rod, 02-28-2014 17:31:07  
Do you know what torque I should have on the three small socket head screws in the planet carrier?

In the manual it says 50-65 inch-pounds that would be about 7 Nm. I find that very little.

In my tractor this has been redone. These screws are bigger than original. They are the same size as in newer transmissions from number 10032007.

The original is "#10-24 x 5/8". But mine is 1/4 x 5/8.

The manual for case 2090-2594 says 13,6-19 Nm for these small screws. I guess it is 1/4 x 5/8 in these models?

So should I use 13,6-19 Nm instead?

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Henrik Jansson

03-03-2014 14:25:18




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 Re: Case 1370, Low hydraulic pressure when I press the clutc in reply to 1370rod, 02-28-2014 17:31:07  
Do I have to shape the wires as a circle? This text in the manual confused me:
"Make sure sealing ring wires have the same radius as piston before installing them inside of outher seal rings. shape gently with fingers if radius needs changing since using a tool could kink wire."

Should they be shaped as a circle? I thougt that they were there to push out the seal ring?
I mean that they should be straight and therefor they will press the sealing.

Or should i shape them so they look like a circle before I install them?

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