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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Charging system on my 830

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denverslim

02-12-2013 06:33:57




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It should be obvious to all by now that when it comes to understanding wiring, I'm somewhat handicapped! I'm asking for help from the forum.

The wiring diagrams all clearly show the "orange" feed wire from the generator going to one side of the circuit breaker. This breaker is also a link from the "red" or HOT wire from the starter to the key switch. Now, what this does is, when the engine is started, the generator feeds juice back to the starter solenoid, causing the starter drive to engage. Thus the drive begins to push into the flywheel while the engine is running. THIS OBVIOUSLY IS A PROBLEM.

I've racked my feeble brain and strained my eyes way too long looking at the diagrams, I've disconected the charging wire to make everything work but the charging system. Where am I wrong?
Thanks in advance for your patience and expertise...slim

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denverslim

02-13-2013 09:16:51




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 Re: Charging system on my 830 in reply to denverslim, 02-12-2013 06:33:57  
Thanks, Jim. I have the shop manual. The wiring diagram in mine has the wiring color coded by an number that refers me to a key code. I eventually figure it out, but the starter solenoid configuration is so small and confusing that I couldn't figure out which wire goes where. Thanks to all the help from the forum I got it. Really, I owe you guys...slim



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Adirondack case guy

02-12-2013 17:30:04




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 Re: Charging system on my 830 in reply to denverslim, 02-12-2013 06:33:57  
third party image

Slim,
Here is a quick sketch of how your wireing should be. When the Key switch is turned to RUN, the ignition terminal becomes hot,and the acessory terminal becomes hot. When you turn the key to the spring loaded start position the start terminal is then HOT also, as long as you hold the key there. On a diesel where a preheater is used, when you turn the key the oposit direction the auxilary terminal becomes Hot also as long as you hold the key there. Down at the starter solonoid a couple of things happen. When you turn the Key to start, the connection is made between the battery lead and the starter terminal. Also you have a resistor in the wire from the key switch to the coil which reduces 12V to roughly6V to extend coil life, however when the starter is kicked in the 6V drops even further causing week spark. To off set this situation the other small starter solonoid terminal (hot start) is activated directing a near 12V current to the coil, enhansing the spark. It sounds like you connected the Gen wire to the start terminal in the starter solonoid, or as bro said , your switch is screwed up or the starter solonoid is. Check your hookups carefully on the key switch and solonoid.
I hope nthis quick drawing help explain the wireing, and how it works.
Loren

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Paul A Young

02-12-2013 17:23:48




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 Re: Charging system on my 830 in reply to denverslim, 02-12-2013 06:33:57  
The red wire that leaves the starter is hooked on the starter post with the pos. battery cable.It then goes to the circuit breaker.On the other side of circuit breaker there are two wires,one orange that goes to voltage regulator on generator,the other is red that goes to key switch.From the key switch there is a yellow wire energized when switch is in start position.That yellow wire goes to neutral switch on transmission,through it then to left side of starter solenoid to activate starter. Hope that helps, Paul

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Jgarner

02-12-2013 09:03:13




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 Re: Charging system on my 830 in reply to denverslim, 02-12-2013 06:33:57  
Denver, there are two posts that are and can be hot on the key switch. One, the run position, is hot all the time until turned to the key to the off position and another when the key is turned all the way to start. That wire should be hot then to activate the solenoid and close the circuit to the starter to activate the Bendix and the starter simultaneously. If you have the solenoid wire on the run post the starter will activate and stay on as long as the key is turned to the run position. Are you sure you have a three position switch, Off, Run, Start? Some models have a start position switch on top of the transmission that has to be in the Start position also. It keeps you from starting the tractor in gear, don't know if the 830 had it, my 630 does, the 530 does and some construction models did, don't know about the 430. Hope I have explained this so that it is clear.

That is what CNT is trying to find out with more pictures.

Jim

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Case Nutty 1660

02-12-2013 07:45:52




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 Re: Charging system on my 830 in reply to denverslim, 02-12-2013 06:33:57  
Slim, the "red" or "batt" wire is a junction point on the starter solinoid point and is only connected with the starter when power is applied to the "start" post on the solinoid, this should in no way entergize the starter, if it is I would think you have a bad solinoid, or am I missing some thing on your tractor? post me some close up shots of how you have your starter wired up ,, also the red wire should be hot at all times so even when charging it should not enguage the starter, are you sure you have not mixed up the "start" post with the "hot start" side on the solinoid? but I can not se the starter working if hooked that way unless you do have a bad solinoid

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denverslim

02-12-2013 16:32:59




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 Re: Charging system on my 830 in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 02-12-2013 07:45:52  
thanks for the replys. I"ll post pictures of all the confusion tomorrow. We"ll see if we can possibly get to the bottom of all this...slim



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denverslim

02-13-2013 06:51:53




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 Re: Charging system on my 830 in reply to denverslim, 02-12-2013 16:32:59  
I bow down to all of you guys after slapping my forehead! I finally get it. I had the red wire going to the starter going thru the circuit breaker with the generator also on the breaker as shown. This was causing juice to go to the starter from the genny.

I realize now the red wire goes to the center of the solenoid, not the right side. Thanks for all your patience, words and sketches. Now I'll clean up my ring gear once more and move on...slim

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Case Nutty 1660

02-13-2013 07:27:16




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 Re: Charging system on my 830 in reply to denverslim, 02-13-2013 06:51:53  
glad it worked out and Bro Loren's diagram was a big help I am sure cnt



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denverslim

02-13-2013 06:54:08




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 Re: Charging system on my 830 in reply to denverslim, 02-13-2013 06:51:53  
By the way, the wiring diagrams, particularly the ones in the shop manual are really bad. You can never really see where the wires on the genny or the starter go. Us idiots need BIG pictures and maybe color coordinated wire diagrams!



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Jgarner

02-13-2013 08:16:44




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 Re: Charging system on my 830 in reply to denverslim, 02-13-2013 06:54:08  
Denver, my JI Case shop manual (630 gas engine module) has a wiring diagram with color codes. Do you have an 830 gas engine manual? If not I can send you a PDF copy of my 630 manual page, should be basically the same. I used it to build a new wiring harness with factory color wires. The only wire color I could not duplicate was a Black with Red stripe. I think I would have had to have bought 5,000ft to get it (a factory run for special order colors). I used brown. (<:

Jim

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denverslim

02-13-2013 09:21:27




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 Re: Charging system on my 830 in reply to Jgarner, 02-13-2013 08:16:44  

Thanks, Jim. I have the shop manual. The wiring diagram in mine has the wiring color coded by an number that refers me to a key code. I eventually figure it out, but the starter solenoid configuration is so small and confusing that I couldn't figure out which wire goes where. Thanks to all the help from the forum I got it. Really, I owe you guys.
Books and manuals are wonderful, but sometimes I need someone to actually explain WHY to totally understand. A slap up along side the head helps too. Lol. I blame it all on the fact that Mom was smoking when she was pregnant with me. Lol...slim

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